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Playing Steel with Keyboard Bass Pedals?
Posted: 28 Jun 2013 8:37 am
by b0b
I have a Hammond in my music room with one octave of bass pedals. It's not hard to play bass pedals with one foot and the organ's volume pedal with the other. Lots of people know how to do that.
I've seen that several companies make stand-alone bass pedals for use with electronic keyboards. I've often thought about playing steel with one of these units. I play a Sierra 8 string steel on a keyboard stand.
My question: Has anyone here ever used bass pedals with steel? If so, what are your thoughts about it? Do you still use them, or was it an experiment that you abandoned for some reason?
Posted: 28 Jun 2013 8:57 am
by Ethan Shaw
I've really wanted to try that,too. I bought some pedals that I was going to install a MIDI kit on, but I bought a full 36-pedal set. It was too big to fit under a steel. I'd try just one octave.
Posted: 28 Jun 2013 9:51 am
by b0b
The Hammond one requires a synth, but rackable MIDI snyths are pretty easy to find.
seen at Musicians Friend for $635
Posted: 29 Jun 2013 12:51 am
by Peter den Hartogh
Why don't you put the Sierra on your Hammond keyboard and just try it?
Posted: 29 Jun 2013 4:16 am
by Fred Kinbom
I was thinking about this too. On a tour I did recently I was accompanied on one song by a drummer who also played bass notes on a Hohner Pianet through an octave pedal. It worked really well, and since then I have been reluctant to play this song solo as I miss that fat bottom end. So this would be a good solution to that.
I am on quite a budget at the moment though - I wonder what the cheapest option for this would be?
Thanks for starting this thread and I look forward to seeing if other people have tried this.
Cheers,
Fred
Posted: 29 Jun 2013 8:22 am
by Sonny Jenkins
When I was working in Jacksonville several years ago we would always go to Cracker Barrel to eat on Sunday mornings. Always a long waiting list for a table,,instead of having their typical country music, they had an older guy outside, entertaining,,,sang, played guitar, mando, banjo, 6 string lap steel. He always accompanied himself with a bass pedal board. Looked like an old one, either taken off an organ, or homemade. Sounded super good,,,the guy made big bucks in tips. I sold him an 8 string Dyna Lap that I had,,,(wish I still had it!!!,,LOL)
Posted: 29 Jun 2013 2:32 pm
by Alan Brookes
It's Jesse Fuller brought up to date with modern technology.
I would have thought that the pedal steel, requiring both hands, both legs, both knees, and both feet, was about the maximum use of human dexterity, without having to play the bass too.
Just get yourself a bass player, or record the tracks separately and play the bass yourself.
Posted: 30 Jun 2013 6:55 am
by Denny Turner
bOb,
When genius Denny Hemmingson (steel / dobro / slide / guitar for Tim McGraw and Faith Hill) lived here on Oahu in the 1980's he would do a guitar / vocal / midi solo act to fill spaces in an ungodly Pro Musician full schedule, and he played through an auto-arranging midi device(s) that used bass pedals as both bass pedals and midi control board, while his volume control pedal had more midi control buttons and would also move side to side like tone controls on some volume pedals but his side to side controlled chord & scale quality / mode for both prearranged and free-style midi patches in yet another rack midi device which got it's chord / scale / mode root from the bass pedals; All the while he's singing and playing both rythm and lead guitar at the same time, while his pedals are cueing a freakin' vocal harmony machine as well, ....and he "never" missed a lick; While midi tracking from a guitar back then was pretty darn latent. Darndest thing I ever saw from a one man band. I wish I could remember how his setup was but can't ...although it seems like it was Roland based ...and it's likely the whole rig was not an off the shelf rig but patched together by his genius skull. Maybe other Fo'Bros might recognize what he was useing / doing and chime in.
I'll PM you the last email address I have for Denny; I haven't talked to him in probably a couple of years; But it probably still works since his Pro networking has become so vast. I feel sure he would be glad to tell you about that set up back then; He's as friendly / great of a guy as he is genius. If he's out on the road I think his wife would give you his cel if you tell her who you are ....although you guys might already know each other.
Posted: 30 Jun 2013 7:28 am
by Mike Neer
Definitely something that has crossed my mind, although I decided it wasn't for me. By all means, go for it!
Received via email
Posted: 30 Jun 2013 8:05 am
by b0b
John Pollock wrote:Hi, Bob,
I'm not yet a SGF member, for reasons I'll explain below, but I wanted to respond to your query.
For six years, 1987-93, I worked as a one-person band, singing and playing guitar (eventually MIDI guitar), racked harmonica, pedal keyboard bass (and other sounds), and using a drum machine. For the sake of variety, I would periodically switch to my Deluxe 8 for a few instrumentals (chiefly the obvious, feed-the-tip-jar stuff: "Sleepwalk," "Steel Guitar Rag," "Spanish Eyes/Moon Over Naples," "Blue Hawaii," etc.).
I had to play the steel on my lap, because the Deluxe 8's tripod leg configuration couldn't coexist with the pedal keyboard. Obviously this was a less than optimum situation, as the steel was bouncing up and down on my left leg. I was able to keep it from sliding around by means of a strip of double-sided tape on the underside. I daresay that what I lost in pitch accuracy, I probably gained in audience amusement. ("The wonder is not that the bear dances WELL...")
My first "bass pedal" rig was a MIDIStep pedal keyboard controlling a Casio CZ-101, later replaced by an Elka DMP-18 pedal keyboard driving a Casio VZ-8M. The MIDIStep is not velocity-sensitive, and covers only a single octave (13 notes, C to C). It is adequate, but no better. The DMP-18, as the name implies, has a range of 18 semitones, and is velocity-sensitive. It is superior to the MIDIStep in every way. The CZ-101 was good; the VZ-8M was self-censored FABULOUS. (I could type for days about the virtues of the Casio professional gear, its technical superiority to anything and everything else on the market at the time, and the abject failure of Casio's marketing people, who did a wonderful job of selling toy keyboards, watches, and cash registers, to communicate those virtues to pro musicians.)
At home, the DMP-18 sat nicely between the legs of my T8 Stringmaster. Some preliminary experiments demonstrated an enormous potential for spacey, "New Age" sounds with the steel routed through a Lexicon Vortex coupled with the VZ-8M's sonic possibilities (the surface of which has barely been scratched, by me or anyone else). Unfortunately, other projects had higher priority at the time, and now that I'm retired and have the time, I lack the physical space. I still own all the gear I've mentioned, and still hope to delve into that area.
While I'm not familiar with any of the current gear, I don't think you'd regret investing in a MIDI pedal keyboard and sound module. As you know, your first one (of anything) teaches you what you want/need in the next one.
I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you may have. Feel free to post this in the thread, if you think it appropriate to do so.
Re the SGF: I've been lurking since I discovered the forum, nearly seven years ago. I haven't registered yet because if I were free to post at will, I would do exactly that, thereby taking time away from what I NEED to be doing, which is playing music. Arthritis has taken all the enjoyment from playing fretted guitars, but I'm still able to play steel. Physical space limitations confine me to lap steel. Making a virtue of necessity, I've been composing (perpetrating?) solo unaccompanied instrumentals for the last several years. These tunes may not be great music, but I like 'em, and I've never heard anyone else doing anything quite like them. Unfortunately, I've always suffered from the studio equivalent of stage fright: A tune will sound fine in rehearsal, but when the red light goes on it's chowder time. I feel very strongly that I need to overcome that obstacle, and have some music available on YouTube or SoundCloud or Bandcamp, before my participation in the SGF would be really meaningful. Believe me, I'm eager to reach that point.
Thanks very much for the SGF!
John Pollock
Posted: 30 Jun 2013 8:10 am
by b0b
I don't like being a "one man band" - it's too much work! To me, the best thing about live music is playing with other people. I like duo and trio gigs, though. The bass is often the missing piece in those configurations.
Posted: 30 Jun 2013 8:28 am
by b0b
Peter den Hartogh wrote:Why don't you put the Sierra on your Hammond keyboard and just try it?
The Hammond isn't exactly a portable instrument!
Posted: 30 Jun 2013 10:47 am
by Peter den Hartogh
I know, they are massive!
I was under the impression that you wanted to try before you buy.
Posted: 30 Jun 2013 2:59 pm
by Gary Reed
Just found this manual:
Your Hammond XPK-100 MIDI Pedalboard is designed to interface with a great variety of keyboards, synthesizers and sound modules to further enhance your playing and real-time performance. This Guide is designed to explain the operating features of your Hammond XPK-100 as simply and graphically as possible.
http://hammondorganco.com/wp-content/up ... PK-100.pdf
Posted: 1 Jul 2013 8:39 am
by Tom Gray
Fred Kinbom wrote:
I am on quite a budget at the moment though - I wonder what the cheapest option for this would be?
The cheapest option requires a little work. But if you have time and are fearless, you can adapt old organ pedals and hook them up via MIDI to a keyboard or laptop computer. People harvest these and sell them on eBay usually for under US$50 plus shipping. Check out midipedals.com or do a Google search for the how-to info.
Posted: 1 Jul 2013 10:56 am
by Fred Kinbom
Tom Gray wrote:Fred Kinbom wrote:
I am on quite a budget at the moment though - I wonder what the cheapest option for this would be?
The cheapest option requires a little work. But if you have time and are fearless, you can adapt old organ pedals and hook them up via MIDI to a keyboard or laptop computer. People harvest these and sell them on eBay usually for under US$50 plus shipping. Check out midipedals.com or do a Google search for the how-to info.
Thanks Tom for the advice - will look into that!
Cheers,
Fred
Posted: 1 Jul 2013 11:35 am
by Tom Keller
The great cuban guitar player Brim Leal, who currently resides in Johnson City,TN is the first person I ever witnessed using the bass pedals with guitar. He most often works as a solo act doing everything from Eric Clapton covers to originals with Roland bass pedals and a DR drum machine. I can't remember whether he uses the pk7 or pk9 pedals. Unfortunately there are no good Youtube clips of his setup to share.
Posted: 2 Jul 2013 6:10 am
by Lawrence Daversa
Is converting them to Midi the only way to use bass pedals? I have been looking into learning them, but have no idea how they work.
Posted: 2 Jul 2013 2:11 pm
by b0b
I haven't seen any that include a sound source.
Posted: 3 Jul 2013 8:38 am
by Bill Hatcher
here are some bass pedals with a sound source....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2lo5Iz3gRY
Posted: 3 Jul 2013 8:54 am
by Mike Neer
b0b wrote:I haven't seen any that include a sound source.
The old Moog Taurus pedals had a sound source. I think there is a modern version of that, too.
Posted: 3 Jul 2013 9:55 am
by b0b
Very inventive. Reminds me of James Taylor's "drum machine".
Posted: 3 Jul 2013 11:03 pm
by Danny Bates
b0b, I play an 8 string Fluger-Marrs lap steel and Roland PK-7A bass pedals at the same time. I play the pedals with both feet. For many years, I played a 6 string electric guitar and bass pedals (with a drummer) in a duo.
I love it. I compose with this setup and I am currently recording an album with it.
Posted: 4 Jul 2013 9:17 am
by Alan Brookes
Posted: 4 Jul 2013 4:30 pm
by b0b
Very cool, Danny. I'd love to see you play that.
