The Steel Guitar Forum

The only suprise being why it took so long? http://konschaklaw.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... ringement/

Well, they are going to hate on me too then. I'm building a B6 modeled steel using one of Lollars Horseshoes, the Pettingill P6.

Here's a thread on the subject started on May 13:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... ght=lollar

I thought the modern Ric horseshoes were faux magnets anyway - this may be their angle - they are "a unique design". On the other side, Lollar's are true HS magnets, the pu won't function properly without them - thus they have a proprietary function.

Lots, lots more info here, on a thread started by some goofball;
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-cafe ... ollar.html

There are many members here who own one or more of those Ricky's, In fact I have seen pictures of collections running into the dozens. What do you suppose is the attraction of those Instruments, might it be the wood, the Tuners, the Strings, the shape, or might it be "That Pickup" which everyone raves about.

You, and your company have been making them a very long time, you have spent a lot in the process in advertising, promoting Musicians and Music in general.

That Pickup has become a signature part of your Instruments and is known the world over.

Enter a third party, who takes your Pickup apart and produces a direct copy and sells it using your trade name.

What would you do?

Ric doesn't even make that pickup anymore. They make one that looks like it, but functions in a completely different way.

As I understand it, only Lollar is making a true replica of "that pickup that everyone raves about". RIC hasn't made it for decades. The only one resembling a horseshoe pickup they currently make is for the bass, and that is only cosmetically.

I don't understand how anyone can make and sell Fender and Gibson style pickups without a problem, but RIC feels like money is being taken out of their pockets because someone wants to upgrade their bass with a real horseshoe magnet. I wonder if this lawsuit also covers Lollar's steel guitar pickups? That would be especially petty, since RIC has stated that they have no plans to make steel guitars again.

Rickenbacker's attitude is "the dog in the manger." What they should do, if there was half a brain between them, is license Lollar.

Ever notice that when you get a musical catalogue from a company like Musician's Friend, all prices are listed, except Ric's? They won't allow prices to be posted, you have to call. Boneheads running the company!

I'm reading between the lines of that first article/blog post but I wonder if Richenbacher isn't more concerned with the use of that pickup and it's basses? Rather than lap steels which to my knowledge it doesn't sell at all.

Scott Thomas wrote:As I understand it, only Lollar is making a true replica of "that pickup that everyone raves about". RIC hasn't made it for decades. The only one resembling a horseshoe pickup they currently make is for the bass, and that is only cosmetically.

I don't understand how anyone can make and sell Fender and Gibson style pickups without a problem, but RIC feels like money is being taken out of their pockets because someone wants to upgrade their bass with a real horseshoe magnet. I wonder if this lawsuit also covers Lollar's steel guitar pickups? That would be especially petty, since RIC has stated that they have no plans to make steel guitars again.

Fender and Gibson went to court and lost , so the design of the Telecaster,stratocaster and P bass are open which means anyone who wants can produce those designs,that is why so many copy's are made from China of Fender and Gibson

What Fender and Gibson lost in court was the ability to trademark the body shapes of certain models of guitars. A trademark would have established that in order for another company to produce guitars with those shapes they would have to pay fees to the owners of the trademarks.

I would venture to guess the when it comes to guitars with virtually the exact shape of Teles and Strats, there are even more American builders making their versions then there are even Asian imports brought into the U.S. There are a fair number of small companies making Strat and Tele knockoffs here in the U.S.

Gibson's lawsuit was specifically against Paul Reed Smith for making a single-cut model that looks a lot like a Les Paul. They likely went after PRS because they are a big enough hitter to cause problems for Gibson in terms of competition.

In the case of Fender, an example of a company that makes guitars that look pretty much exactly like Teles and Strats is Tom Anderson Guitarworks in the Los Angeles area. They are a boutique operation reportedly making about 750 instruments a year, but they have a couple other models, so these aren't all Tele and Strat shaped guitars.

I would think the reality is that Anderson is only a small blip on Fender's radar, and that Lollar is also a pretty small blip on Rickenbacker's radar with the pickup issue. You'd think Ric would have better things to do with company financial resources than sending their lawyers after Jason Lollar.

Wasn't Warmoth sued or threatened with a suit by Fender? Don't they pay a fee?

Mark Eaton wrote:You'd think Ric would have better things to do with company financial resources than sending their lawyers after Jason Lollar.

Why they are doing it is a puzzlement, but I have a guess:

The pointy haired Ric mgr who conceived this wants to have Jason manufacture real horseshoe magnet pickups and sell them exclusively to Ric at a discount of about a hundred bucks each. Ric then packages them in a pretty Ric box with a certificate of authenticity and sells them for at least two hundred dollars more than what they paid for them. I have a feeling that for an original Ric pickup the selling price could be considerably higher than what Jason asks, especially if they spelled it "Rickenbacher." For Ric this monopoly would certainly be more lucrative than manufacturing their own while having Jason compete with them.

This sounds like a desperation act by a company with such low sales they are no longer a viable player in the music business. What a shame and disgrace to their proud and shining past.

Rockne Riddlebarger wrote:This sounds like a desperation act by a company with such low sales they are no longer a viable player in the music business. What a shame and disgrace to their proud and shining past.

Really, you couldn't be more wrong about this. Rickenbacker is well know for aggressively protecting their trademarks; they have more business than they know what to do with right now, in large part because their marque has not been diluted by indiscriminate plagiarism.

This is becoming almost universal in manufacturing of anything at all. We live in a world where the CEO of a corporation can be both fired, and sued, for making any decision that seemingly lessens the short-term stockholder's payouts. If you want to "go green" or "do the right thing" you need to show a cost/benefit analysis that it will pay off. And all these lawsuits are a result of hiring lawyers who comb through your field, looking for potential ways to make money without having to develop, test, innovate, manufacture anything new at all... it all appears to be some kind of expression of some aspect of human nature, which is an awful thought, huh? gimme gimme gimme....

David Mason wrote:This is becoming almost universal in manufacturing of anything at all. We live in a world where the CEO of a corporation can be both fired, and sued, for making any decision that seemingly lessens the short-term stockholder's payouts. If you want to "go green" or "do the right thing" you need to show a cost/benefit analysis that it will pay off. And all these lawsuits are a result of hiring lawyers who comb through your field, looking for potential ways to make money without having to develop, test, innovate, manufacture anything new at all... it all appears to be some kind of expression of some aspect of human nature, which is an awful thought, huh? gimme gimme gimme....

None of which applies to Rickenbacker, as a privately held corporation.

One thing applies for sure. Shortsightedness. Why would they want to alienate anyone who revered Rickenbacker/Rickenbacher?

even if he wins, he might lose. lots of time and money to litigate.

I saw this & it brought to mind Ben Miessner's horseshoe pups & patents in the '30s. He had 10 related patents issued & other patents pending before 1938.
I'm wondering if their history might play into this issue & help Jason.
Note to self: Write Jason regarding this.
Note to forum: Any thoughts on this?

I think the only issue is the name "horseshoe" is a registered trademark. The original patent for the actual pickup has long expired. There is no problem making and selling the pickup, he just cannot call it a "horseshoe" If he changes the name to "bighorseass" pickup he will be fine.

Look's like all is well in shoeland again if you have $600
http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mercha ... ar-pickups
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t37641/
Good thing I jumped at the opportunity to grab 2 vintage shoes for $200 a while back =

Good news!