Piezo pickup and Volume Pedals (Mission Volume Pedal)

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 31 May 2013 3:56 am

I have a Yamaha SV130 Electric Violin that our fiddle player is using in our group. It has a piezo pickup at the bridge running into the little pre-amp in the violin.

We are trying to set her up with a volume pedal but aren’t having much luck. I know that VPs are like anything else you put in the chain, you have impedance issues, but I don’t know enough about it to know what type of VP to purchase that would give her the most range and match the impedance. I’ve tried both of my Goodrich pedals including the one with active electronics. I also tried a Ernie Ball VP Junior. All have minimal travel to effect volume with the violin. Last night I tried a Art tube pre-amp directly out of the violin prior to the VP. Not much luck there either.

Suggestions?

We are looking for something that gives her the widest volume range. The ones I tried (above) tend to have little travel to effect the volume.

Thanks
Mack

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 31 May 2013 11:32 am

Has anyone tried the Mission Engineering VM Pro PZ Volume Pedal? Says its made specific for Piezo type pickups.

Mack

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 31 May 2013 11:39 am

you need an impedance buffer of some kind before that pedal - classic problem with piezo pickups

either that, or put the preamp before the pedal

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 31 May 2013 2:59 pm

sounds like the preamp is in the violin, which is before the vol pedal....so it should be fine...??

for the fiddle player in my band, I set her up with a Baggs DI with a volume pedal in the effects loop, which works perfectly.....not clear that the DI is needed for the violin in this case, which already has a preamp, but it would be useful to have the Baggs tone controls and notch filter + phase switch for feedback elimination

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 31 May 2013 5:36 pm

Thanks for the responses,

I brought the violin home to mess with. Just for some additional info, she is playing though my little PA setup, so we have a wide freq range and lots of control with the mini board. The speakers are powered TS115 Alto speakers.

I set it up directly into my goodrich 120 VP. Same thing, very limited control. About an inch of travel at the high end of the pedal between nothing and all out. (All out sounded like s**t)

I put the Art Tube MP Project Series Pre-Amp directly out of the violin prior to the VP. Got a better response with the Gain switch on, adding 20db of gain. I also opened up the volume on the violin. I opened up the output (post gain)of the Art pre-amp and controlled set volume with the Gain (pre gain). I was wanting to use the impedance switch on the pre-amp but found out that it only works with the XLR inputs.

This setup gave me a lot more control with the VP. It had a lot more response at the low end of the travel and much brighter wide open.

So, I'm not sure how much the pre-amp of the violin plays with the line out - output signal, vs, the headphone signal out. I'm still thinking you have a high impedance signal out of the violin.

I think I'm still interested in the Mission Engineering VP made for piezos.

The Art pre-amp set this way is functional. We'll try it this way next practice.

Other ideas or thoughts are welcome.

Thanks

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 1 Jun 2013 5:08 am

I jammed with a mediocre violin player that was made unlistenable with a volume pedal... In my humble opinion the the two don't mix well; the bow is the volume control, and if you don't know how to use it no pedal will help.

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 3 Jun 2013 4:36 am

I am going ahead with ordering the Mission Engineering VP.

http://missionengineering.com/

The model is the VM PRO PZ. I'll post back on how it works once received.

Thanks again for the responses.

Mack

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 3 Jun 2013 3:05 pm

Mac
I have a L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic DI you can try.
I think a pre-amp is what you want and agree the bow is the volume controller.
We had a fiddle in a warm up band the other night and she just plugged into my 67 Twin.
She said she really liked the sound and it sounded good to me ... Not screechy at all... Just mellow sounding with no reverb.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 Jun 2013 6:54 pm

Suggestions?

Is the volume on both the violin and the amp turned up all the way? Any volume pedal can only work with the signal it receives. If it's not receiving enough signal, then there will not be enough output for the volume pedal to regulate, plain and simple. the violin has a preamp built-in, and you've already tried an active pedal and a preamp, so an impedance problem shouldn't be an issue.

Do you get a good sound with the violin plugged directly into the amp?

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 4 Jun 2013 4:02 am

Ken, thanks for the offer. The Art Pre-amp will work, just an added box to carry and a bunch of knobs. I'm hoping the VP from Mission will be the ticket. It should get here tomorrow of Thursday. I'll post an outcome when we get to mess with it.

Regarding using the bow for volume, yes I agree, however this young lady is new to this game. She is classically trained with a degree in music, she knows how to use the bow etc.

This amplified music is completely new to her. We are asking her to play this thing like a fiddle (not like a violin she was trained to do) play old country music she's heard maybe twice in her life(she is twenty), sit in with a group of old men, play an electric violin not acoustic, site read chord charts and play a melody and counter melody from it, and compete with drums, bass, guitar, steel and a singer for volume. That's a lot for someone just starting to play in this environment. The VP is something to help not hinder.(I hope

) I'm surprised she keeps showing up to practice week after week!

Donny, thanks, yep I figured that out when playing around with it on Friday. If I crank the violin volume, and the Art pre-amp post gain volume, the Goodrich pedal has a lot more responsive travel. It sounds ok, needs some tweek'en but will work. The violin plugged directly into the PA system sounds wonderful. The VP doesn't work without the Art pre-amp, which is why I am scratching my head. The pre-amp in the violin should do the trick. Thanks for the tip. I'll keep working on it, but hope this Mission pedal is the ticket. We'll see.

Johnny Thomasson · Post by **Johnny Thomasson** » 6 Jun 2013 12:37 pm

I've played fiddle for 40 years, and never found anything close to being as good as the LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI preamp. I've tried several hi-dollar/hi-end pre's, and either sold them or sent them back because none did the job like the Baggs. I don't even use an amp anymore if I'm playing through a good PA, which is always these days.

I never felt the need to use a volume pedal with fiddle. My bow and the Baggs pre give me all the control I need. There might be something better out there, but I haven't found it yet.

Jan Viljoen · Post by **Jan Viljoen** » 6 Jun 2013 5:33 pm

On one of my mandolins I use a Fishman ProEq2 preamp and I get good results.

I fixed a piece of leather to it, to slide over my belt when standing.

See if you can test drive one at a music shop.

Good luck!

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessor ... tar-preamp

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 7 Jun 2013 3:25 am

I received, and took to practice, the Mission Volume Pedal last night. It works as advertised.

I detected no coloration of the tone, and had the full length of pedal travel affecting the volume. Connection was from the fiddle to the VP to the PA. With this pedal, I was able to turn down the gain on the PA about a quarter and still get the volume needed.

I also tried this on my Dobro with the Nashville bridge pickup. Worked like a charm.

Problem solved.

http://missionengineering.com/

VM PRO PZ.

Runs on a 9v battery, or wall transformer. (We ran on the battery as provided) To access the "Sparkle Switch", and impedance switch you have to open the pedal up. (Didn't do this, the sound we got was the same as it was when you plug straight into the board, just affected the volume.)

I would recommend this pedal.

Thanks

Mack

Mack Quinney · Post by **Mack Quinney** » 10 Jun 2013 7:25 am

One more time up for anyone who might be interested.

We used the Mission Volume Pedal VM PRO PZ for the gig Sunday. It did what it was suppose to do. The fiddle player kept it at a constant volume until her lead came up, then she gave it a little gas, and then back down after the lead was over. Tone was great, and the pedal worked outstandingly well!

I would recommend this pedal to folks who need something with a Piezo pickup. The internal buffer on the pedal worked perfictly and much better than my use of pre-amps etc.

http://missionengineering.com

Mack

Paul Honeycutt · Post by **Paul Honeycutt** » 24 Jun 2013 11:05 am

Make sure the battery in the violin is fresh. I have a guitar with EMG active pickups that made scratchy noises when I adjusted the volume. A new battery fixed it right up.

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Piezo pickup and Volume Pedals (Mission Volume Pedal)

Piezo pickup and Volume Pedals (Mission Volume Pedal)

Mission Engineering VM Pro PZ Volume Pedal

Fishman preamp

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