Best way to record using backup tracks?

[Jarold Carlton]

Which technique produces the best quality recording, directly importing the MP3 or WAV backup track into the DAW while using a mic on the second track to capture the steel, or playing the backup track through a sound system and recording both the steel and the music live?

I am using a PreSonus 22VSL AudioBox interface, Studio One software, and a Shure SM-57 mic. I’ve tried importing the backup track to a separate track, then attempt to record my steel to another track. My playing is not all that bad, but the end mix is less than desirable. Should I add my effects (RV5, DD2) as I play, or should I play dry and add the software effects later during the mix?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Johan Jansen]

Hi Jarold,
I don't know what DAW you are using, but recording in this situation with backingtracks, need a lot of blending in. Therefor I advice you to record dry, EQ and use good plugins for Hall, Delay and compression in mixing. If you use cubase 5, 6, 6.5 or 7, it has very usable plugins on board.
regards, Johan

[Jarold Carlton]

Thanks for the advice Johan. The DAW I'm using is Studio One, the newest kid on the block. It was included with the PreSonus AudioBox interface, and by using this combo, I can achieve a 3ms latency on the cue--which isn't bad.

Do you play the background music through a stereo tuner and record everything live or do you import it directly onto its own track first?

[Johan Jansen]

Hi Jarold, I always import the backingtrack-Wav, or MP3, whatever you have, on a stereo audiotrack in the daw. Then record teel or steels on separate tracks. Then find out what plugins are best for using. Than mixing
Good luck with it!
Johan

[Keith Davidson]

Jarold, I use Sonar Producer for my DAW and I leave my backing tracks separate (I start with midi and then bounce them to separate audio tracks) and get my mix close and then record.

Then all my backing tracks as well as my recorded track are available for editing.

If you're using an mp3 I would keep a separate track for the mp3 and then add the recorded track to a separate track so that you can mix it and blend it with the mp3.

When all is well, export all the tracks as a wav or mp3.

After I export the mp3 I use Adobe Audition to master the exported mp3.

Keith

[Dennis Detweiler]

Can you sell a finished product like this (pay for copyright use) or strictly personal use?

[Jarold Carlton]

Keith:

Good information here. I've imported my backing tracks as .wav files into its own track, and then when I record my steel onto a separate track, I use my headphones and cue mix. My PreSonus interface hardware has a “Fat” channel that enables me to record my steel dry, but the hardware allows me to blend in any effects without actually recording them. The cool thing is that I can get a feel for the reverb and delay as I'm playing live, but record straight from my amp without any pedal effects. Later in the mix, I can add whatever effects, EQ, compression, etc. that I want.

The problem is possibly with my mix, especially in the EQ. Recording professionals mix in a way that sits the Steel on top of the other instruments. For some reason, my steel blends in too much. I guess it’s something I’m going to have to get a feel for by a lot of trial and error. I seem to lose the quality of the background music in the final production. I’m just curious how David Hartley and other great players on the Forum mix an MP3 or WAV background to produce great recordings.

Dennis:

I’m not sure about the copyright. Since I’ve purchased my background tracks from David Hartley and John Hughey’s family, I would suspect that I would have to ask for their permission if I wanted to actually sell the final copies and give due credit where appropriate. I’m only a living room player, but I might play someday in a church or karaoke venue, although I’m not with a band or ever intend to produce anything for sale.

[Jack Stoner]

I use Sonar X2 Producer DAW in my home studio.

I would have the backing track(s) on separate tracks in Sonar. Record the steel to a separate track (or tracks) and first add whatever you want to the steel track. Then the mixing comes in, which is an art in itself to get the right mix. When I'm mixing a song or instrumental I may spend one day on one song until I get the mix I like.

I then use Ozone 5, which is a mastering program, to "master" the mix and produce the final product. But again, I may make 8 or 10 variations of the Ozone "mastering" before I get what I want.

I don't use headphones to mix, I use my studio monitor speakers. I can get a better final product with the studio monitors. I also have a Focusrite VRM Box which I can use to compare different speaker systems, but I do not use the VRM Box's emulations as the final product.

[Jarold Carlton]

Thanks for the info. I've pretty much imported the background track and then played it through my headphones as I record my steel onto another track. I've tried recording both dry and wet and experimented with several different variations.

I have to agree with you, that the mixing is an art in itself and takes a lot of tweaking. I once recorded part of a song that turned out with excellent results when I first acquired my recording equipment, but it was accidental and not by experience or knowledge. Since then, I've been trying to figure out how I did it.

I suppose that the more we tinker and learn, the better we eventually become.

[David Winfrey]

Jarold,
First of all you need to keep your tracks as .wav files when you can. The .mp3 file format is a compressed file format and the sound quality is not as good as a .wav file.
I would suggest that you always record "dry". If you use reverb, EQ, etc. when recording it can't be undone. However, if you record a dry track you can "play with it" as much as you want in the mix and get it sounding as good as possible.
I have a small personal recording studio that sits beside my house, and have mixed a bunch of songs for local bands and have been fortunate enough to be around some professional studio guys and learn from them.
I have found that the art of mixing is usually learned with experience like most crafts. You need a good ear and a bit of talent to do it really well. Not everyone is good at mixing. I would recommend that you reach out to other local musicians and perhaps make some connections with other people who have similar experience to yours. I bet you can find someone who has a bit of talent for mixing.
Keep in mind, there is a reason why you see credits on albums for recording, mixing and mastering engineers. They are different specialties and most people don't realize how much goes into each process. Don't get discouraged if your first attempts don't sound like the multi-million dollar Nashville studio productions. Reach out for help (as you have done here, and in other ways) and you will grow in the process. There is a ton of good info available in books and on the net. The more you study the art of recording the more you'll learn and be successful. It is a process that never stops progressing. That's one of the things I love about the "studio experience". Like so many things in life, if you really want to be good at it, it take patience and perseverance.
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
David

[Jarold Carlton]

Thanks David for the advice. Now I understand the reason for recording “dry”. I have done a lot of Photoshop work and I understand the importance of keeping a file in it’s natural state. It makes perfect sense to keep the recording as natural as possible so you can add color to it however you want or start over if you don’t like it.

I have had a steel player who was also into professional recordings in Nashville kind enough to work with me now. I don’t play with a group, and if I did find someone local who is experienced in recording, it would still help to have someone who also plays the steel guitar. Those artists are worth their weight in gold.

I bought a 17 hour DVD on Studio One and it has helped up to a point. Having a trained ear is certainly the key to fine tuning everything in.

My goal is to record some of my favorites onto a CD for my family before my arthritic fingers prevent me from playing anymore.

Thanks again!!

[Keith Davidson]

Jarold, just stumbled on this post, for some reason I'm not getting notifications when someone posts to a thread I've posted to.

Guess I'll have to ask Bob what's going on as it's happened quite a few times lately.

Anyway, great advice you've been provided with here, especially with the recording dry. Once it's recorded with any effects you can't undo it.

Another thing I do is always save the original recorded backing track as a separate wav as well as the recorded steel or whatever instrument as a separate wav file.

That way if you screw things up and happened to have saved it you can always revert to the original that is raw.

I've used Photoshop as well and know very well why you save the originals - once you start messing around it's hard to stop.....lol

Here is a link to some free tutorials that I've been reading. All based on Pro Tools but applies to whatever daw you are using.

There are two 30 day posts that are "5 minutes to a better mix" that this guy posted a while back. Only short but provides some really good mixing info.

Actually, I just checked this link and he's added another 30 so that's 90, 5 minute tutorials. I've downloaded them with the youtube downloader so there on my hard drive. Great reference material.

Here's the link: http://therecordingrevolution.com/5minutes/

Hope this helps some, take care,

Keith

[Jarold Carlton]

Keith, thanks for the helpful information. I visited Graham’s channel and saw all of the helpful tips. Every little bit of info can help to build a bigger picture for me.

I was told that I needed the Pro version of the DAW I was using. I’ve been waiting for their occasional discounts to upgrade. I just upgraded during a 3 day $100 off upgrade promo that Presonus ran a few days ago. The pro version gives me “Mastering”, a feature that the lesser versions has. I will now be able to record my mix in stereo.

Even though I’ve seen video lessons which include “inserts” and “sends”, I’m not real sure of how they work. Also, I will have to learn more about the “Master” out channel. My earlier version didn’t have a stereo master out, only a mono. So, I will be excited to play around with the Pro version of Studio One—and the Recording Revolution clips.

Have a great one!

Jarold

[Bill Bertinot]

Here is a "Mixing Maxim" that you can play around with.

When you EQ, balance the bass, mids and highs, of your steel to sound good ALL BY ITSELF, it will not necessarily blend well with the other tracks. That is because all those other instruments have very similar frequencies, and when all those frequencies get together - they can sound mushy and not distinct.

Making an instrument or vocal stand out in the mix has a LOT to do with EQ (bass mids and highs).

What might help your steel stand out better in the mix is to: a. Turn the bass down a bit or a lot on the steel track (once recorded) b. turn down the amount of reverb and delay on your steel track (once recorded) play around with this.

You're not just a player anymore, now you're also an engineer!

[Tony Prior]

these days there is more than 1 way to skin the cat..many many ways..the trick is to learn the best 'process' that works for you.

yes..import your TRACKS into your DAW, doesn't matter which one...wave preferred or quality MP3 if that's all you have.

Create a few tracks for your Steel..typically I use two for the projects I work on...

Generally now, I do not record Steel for the entire song in a single take...I break it up into sections..across a couple of tracks...over the last few years each session I did, ( probably a few dozen ) the producers and engineers broke up the songs into sections...if it works for them, it works for me.. very easy to edit and make changes should they be necessary.. which they will be... Obviously you don't break the song into parts or sections that require continuity in your playing...put the DAW in LOOP mode, rehearse then record..over and over and over till you like it or decide it's not getting any better !

Currently I am working with a couple of remote artists,both putting together 10 or 12 track CD's..slowly ...I track at home on the DAW using the MP3's they send . By using two tracks ( or more ) ,should they ask for a change on a specific part, it's REALLY easy to make the change with minimal effort..


Once each "section" is done I either drag them all into a single track...or leave them as be across two or three tracks...be sure to "clean-up" the tracks before you merge them together should you decide to., meaning delete/cut anything that is not MUSIC or intended...recorded noise etc before the take and after , get it out of there..something we couldn't do on our 4 track cassette recorders, or couldn't do easily if at all...

The song is done but you still need to MIX then Master should you decide to...IF the songs are not intended for radio or commercial retail sale, mastering may not be all that important if the mix is good..those of us that have been recording geeks for years did it without mastering for decades. Now we add mastering because we can ! Purpose is everything...

regarding distribution..or selling...

If you are giving away or selling someone else's music ( called distribution) it needs to have royalties paid to be legal....If it's your own music get it copyrighted. I doubt you'll do 20 to life for recording Sleepwalk and not paying the royalty , hey, but there's always a first time !

It's that easy..the hard part as always is the PLAYING part ! and in tune.....

[Jarold Carlton]

Bill and Tony,

Thanks for the excellent advice. I do believe that balancing the EQ is what will set my instrument on top of the background music, all sharing similar frequencies. I just wasn’t sure which frequencies to cut and/or boost.

I try to import and mixdown my tracks as a WAV file rather than an MP3 as WAVs have more fidelity. Yes, I do agree to cut many steel tracks all within the same song, then cutting, punching, dragging and dropping only the best of each segment to produce the best overall arrangement. I’m sure the everyday person has no real clue how musicians perform magic to create a great album.

My recordings are only for personal use. I want to leave something for my children, and a CD of my favorite recordings will be something. I’ve never done anything on YouTube, and I am not anywhere good enough to ask money for my playing.

As far as “Mastering”, it’s a new concept since I just purchased the Pro version upgrade to Studio One. Where I’m having problems is with the background music. I have to crank up my CD player full volume to really hear the music. Also, I’m wondering how much quality I lose be mixing a WAV file into my music, i.e., if it is lossy or whether it preserves all the same bits of information.

As far as being an engineer, I could easily understand how someone could take a 2 or 4 year course to learn all the techniques of being a sound engineer. But more importantly, one must have an “ear” and the talent to do this regardless of knowledge.

Thanks again for your help.