The Steel Guitar Forum

Interesting article with the composer on new Superman movie.

the part about pedal steel guitar is in the tenth
paragraph from the top.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/05/showbiz/z ... ?hpt=hp_c3

Gary Jones

At one of the sessions Hans said (and read this in a German accent) "It's a movie about quintessential American values so why not use a quintessential American instrument."


front row L-R: JayDee Maness, myself, Marty Rifkin, Boo Bernstein.
back row: Rick Schmidt, Peter Freiberger, John McClung, Chas Smith.

It was four days of sampling ensemble steels. Looking forward to hearing the finished score.

Wow, brings new meaning to the phrase "man of steel."

Any info on hardware, Skip? I see a few Peaveys and a Line6 Pod. Are those two overhead mics and front room mics the primary way y'all were recorded, like a conventional orchestra? I can't tell from the pic if there are any cab mics on the amps.

We all had mics on the amps, as well as DI's thru the Pods, or whatever. There was a conductor and a mic array above his station. One day we would set up in the violin section area of the room, the next day in the cello area, and so on, so there could be realistic orchestral panning and delay times...and there were a few o'head room mics around, as well.
They would have us play a note for 30 seconds, or longer... striking the note and as it died out we would back off the vp and strike it again, bringing the volume back up.
With 8 of us doing it, it was similar to a violin section playing long extended notes by bowing in one direction, and then the next. We did every note on the steel, from the lowest on the back neck to the highest on the front neck. Then we moved on to notes of shorter duration.
We also did slides, in similar fashion from low notes to high notes. Slides in half notes, quarter notes,, eight notes, as well as intervals...2nds, 3rds, min 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6th, octaves...all sorts of things. Four long days of that...
We heard a little of what they were intending to do with it all. They played some of the samples back for us, using a midi keyboard playing the samples from a computer. Held notes, along with slides...the room absolutely shook from the sound, and you really couldn't tell what it was, since it wasn't anything that you could pigeonhole into sounding like a steel.
All in all, it was a blast...a great hang for 8 old pals.
Here's a pic with Hans sitting at Marty's steel. Sorry to say I forgot their names, but the guy 2nd from the left was one of the engineers, 2nd from the right was the conductor, and the guy on the right worked with Hans, I believe.

I guess the secret's not a secret anymore.

Also working with Hans on this project was Peter Asher, another amazing talent and intellect with quite a track record himself. Both Hans and Peter and the rest of the crew couldn't have been nicer or more professional.

Boo, Peter Asher, Chas, Skip, Rick, me, JayDee, Marty and John.

This is one of the most interesting posts in a long while here. Thanks for sharing.

Robert

can't wait to hear the final movie tracks, this is a very cool project and as stated, one of the most interesting threads here in a while

Beyond interesting post, for sure. I'm sure there are nearly unlimited things that could be done with that many real-time samples.
I have no idea what rights assignments you guys did on the session, but I'd be curious if these tracks were going to eventually appear as "The secret steel samples" disc...
A marathon for sure, but what a cool session!

Way to go guys One of the coolest steel guitar projects I ever heard of Kudos to Hans or whoever had the insight, saw the value and musicality of it.

It was Hans' idea. He really is quite a visionary and regarded as a genius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Zimmer

Wow! This is so cool-Thanks for telling us about this. So it sounds like they will create a totally new sound, until put together, never heard by human ears. Somebody will be putting in some overtime!

2nd from the right was the conductor, and the guy on the right worked with Hans, I believe.

The conductor was Atli Örvarsson who is also a film composer from Iceland and on his right is Tom Holkenborg, aka junkie, who is also a film composer. Tom works for Hans and is in charge of the cues that Hans doesn't do.

Way back at the beginning, when I first spoke with Hans, he had just finished the Batman movie and he said, "I see Batman as how the rest of the world sees the Americans. I see Superman as how the Americans see themselves and what could be more American than the pedal steel guitar."

Thanks, Chaz...I couldn't remember their names.
And a special tip of the hat to you, since you were the connection to Hans that made it all happen.

Way to go Chas, I was wondering what u were up to as you haven't been on here much in a while. This splains it all. I agree with everyone that this sounds like a beginning of something great, very exciting stuff...Stormy

Yes, a very special thanks to Chas, who pulled all the players together for the project, and brought some of his wild hand-made, one-of-a-kind instruments.

I'm eager to hear the finished product. It was an incredible sound, but I'm not at all sure it will be recognizable as steel guitars (not that it needs to be or should be). Actually I'm really hoping it will start a whole new trend in film composing, TV and records too.

Mark van Allen wrote:Beyond interesting post, for sure. I'm sure there are nearly unlimited things that could be done with that many real-time samples.
I have no idea what rights assignments you guys did on the session, but I'd be curious if these tracks were going to eventually appear as "The secret steel samples" disc...
A marathon for sure, but what a cool session!

Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking. These samples could show up in a hundred movies or tracks! So, while I'm happy for the players making some money, and for our instrument getting some "exposure" (if you can call it that) the whole idea of someone cutting and pasting these players' random notes together to get a score, composition, or song doesn't really sit well with me...sorta like "Well, we used to design and build some nice buildings, but now all we do is sell bricks, and someone else does the "building" (and gets most of the credit).

For the record, I'm an unknown and a hacker, and nobody probably cares what I think. But personally, I'd have felt better if someone like Dave Ristrim or Susan Alcorn had been called in to do part of the score, instead of having a whole bunch of players just do note samples.

These samples could show up in a hundred movies or tracks!

The agreement was, these samples can only be used for this movie and nothing else for at least the next 3 yrs and if they are, we are to be compensated, in some form. Regardless, are you suggesting we shouldn't have taken the call?

But personally, I'd have felt better if someone like Dave Ristrim or Susan Alcorn had been called in to do part of the score, instead of having a whole bunch of players just do note samples.

That's not going to happen, because it's his score and everything in it has to have his "signature".

the whole idea of someone cutting and pasting these players' random notes together to get a score, composition, or song doesn't really sit well with me...(and gets most of the credit).

Do you really think that Michaelangelo painted that ceiling by himself? The artists who are playing at the top, whether it's art or film composition, typically have a staff of people to help them realize their ideas. This is how I've made my living for the past 26 yrs. Also, there was nothing random about the notes. All of the notes and phrases that we played were scripted and intentional. Our job was to replace the orchestra.

Donny, With all respect, you may be missing the point of having eight players working as a section. Any instrument in an orchestra is capable of beautiful solo work, as Susan Alcorn or Dave Ristrim do, but in an orchestral setting, they work as a section. That's a rare but not completely unprecedented event for steel guitars (the Nashville Bar Association, or as Sonny Burnette, Weldon Myrick and Hal Rugg did at the Opry working as a section, although this was still something quite different). The results were unlike anything that could have done by one individual, even with multiple overdubs.

chas smith wrote:The agreement was, these samples can only be used for this movie and nothing else for at least the next 3 yrs and if they are, we are to be compensated, in some form. Regardless, are you suggesting we shouldn't have taken the call?

No, I'm just musing. But I'm glad that there's written protection for compensation for those involved. Of course, terms are the business of those involved, and no one else, but there have been many horror stories about rights being signed away unintentionally.

chas smith wrote: That's not going to happen, because it's his score and everything in it has to have his "signature".

I would expect no less (although some composers do meld the works of others into their own scores).

chas smith wrote: Do you really think that Michaelangelo painted that ceiling by himself? The artists who are playing at the top, whether it's art or film composition, typically have a staff of people to help them realize their ideas. This is how I've made my living for the past 26 yrs. Also, there was nothing random about the notes. All of the notes and phrases that we played were scripted and intentional. Our job was to replace the orchestra.

I'd like to think that Michaelangelo's "team" did more than respond to simple directions "Paint a line there, then put a dot right here", that they were allowed to contribute and be a part of the creative process. But I do realize that in a large production, like a movie or symphony orchestra, where there may be more than 100 players, that most of them do remain hidden and unnoticed, and are simply playing lines and dots, as requested. Perhaps it was the same with Michaelangelo's crew. Who knows? Also, by "random", I meant non-melodic stuff, and it's at least inferred that what was done was more just "sampled notes" than it was playing melodies or phrases. (By the way, I learned to appreciate textural cinematic backgrounds from Louis and Bebe Barron's work.)

Lastly, I respect your many years in films providing music, textural backgrounds, and sound effects. Were you involved in the movie "Men Don't Leave"? Seems like it would have been right up your alley.

there have been many horror stories about rights being signed away unintentionally.

From my experience, once you've been paid, they own what ever you played. 11 years ago, I was listed in the credits as a performer and a soloist on a big budget film score, but I wasn't on the payroll. That one really angered me. Another time, a friend called to ask if I had played on what he was watching, because he was sure it was me, I told him no, but who was the composer? He told me and, yup, it was me. On the other hand, there are guys like Charlie Clouser. I played on the 1st SAW movie and every time he scored another one, he sent me a check.

I would expect no less (although some composers do meld the works of others into their own scores).

The composer doesn't do that, the music director does. One of my compositions was used in the Hunger Games sound track. The composer may have a room full of musicians who improvise with him on cues.

Lastly, I respect your many years in films providing music, textural backgrounds, and sound effects. Were you involved in the movie "Men Don't Leave"? Seems like it would have been right up your alley.

Thank you and yes, I was the steel guitar and I worked with Arliss so he would look like he was playing. We were working in his living room and Debra Winger was in the kitchen painting the cabinets. Fun day.

chas smith wrote:...

(although some composers do meld the works of others into their own scores).

The composer doesn't do that, the music director does. One of my compositions was used in the Hunger Games sound track. The composer may have a room full of musicians who improvise with him on cues...

"Music supervisor" .. gets higher billing and higher pay than the composer .. in charge of paying obscene amounts of money to pop stars to license the director's favorite hit songs and put them in the movie whether they fit or not ... but possibly I exaggerate and wax cynical.

...to license the director's favorite hit songs and put them in the movie whether they fit or not

Or if the studio is connected to a "label", they'll try to fit in their "products". Many years ago, I was working on one where the composer was dumbfounded by what they were trying to fit into the production and which clashed with what he had been writing.

what was done was more just "sampled notes" than it was playing melodies or phrases

There was a point, on the 2nd day, that I think was a defining moment. First of all, there are 8 steel guitars on the Eastwood Scoring Stage at Warner Bros. The floor is there to resonate the orchestra and, at one point, we were all playing a C. There was a sound in the air that no one had ever heard before. It was moving and it sounded like it had a life of its own. At that point it was, so this is what we're doing. It was a profound validation of what a single note can do.

Did you guys use the same tuner to standardize the sound?

This must have been like an adrenalin injection.