The Steel Guitar Forum

I've been playing around with a different way of playing single notes. Normally I would use a flat bar and use pick blocking to create clean single notes but after reading page 34 of the Jerry Byrd Course, I started practicing single notes using the techniques presented there.

Basically slighting tipping the bar and accurately pushing and pulling the tip of the bar to the top of the string. The tip is pushed (or pulled) into the trough created by the distance between the strings and you continue pulling until the tip rests on top of the strings, all other strings being naturally muted by the left hand behind the bar. The trick is to time the movement of the bar with the thumb (and/or other fingers) of the right hand so you only pluck the string as soon as the bar is riding on top of the string.

It takes some practice, but you can get very clean single notes at a fairly fast clip without ever lifting the bar off the strings and with no finger or palm blocking.

It is similar to the way I use to play the dobro, except in that case, pull offs and hammer ons were the norm. In this, the bar never leaves the strings.

It is new for me.

I think that's what is referred to as penciling. P-tah refers to the sound or the way the pickup responds to the attack of the string--I think....

Perhaps but that isn't the way I understood it from what Jerry has to say on that page

I always interpreted p-tah as being the seamless morphing of two notes (on seperate strings) that is unique to the steel guitar. Ex. If you had a note on the 5th fret of string 3 and the next note was fret 8 of string 2, you would "push" the notes into one blended move. I usually slide up and cross over a bit before the next note. If there is only 1 fret difference, I still do that.
The steel guitar can get all those microtonal sounds. JB mentions "weaving" the notes thru the tune.
I just re-read JBs points on pg 34 and yes, that's it.

Interesting. I had the book but really didn't use it, so consider me uninformed on the subject of p-tah.

It's just a term JB uses - you hear Hawaiians do it regularly. It's very vocal like phrasing.
It would make more sense if he called it "Pah-Taah" ... The "-" being the crossover point.

You mean like a yodel?

I guess a good yodeller... certainly not mine

Here is what Jerry says: "The 3 'pick-up' notes at the beginning and also on line 3 are played in a manner that I call the 'p-tah' to describe the sound of moving from one string to another smoothly when playing single string passage."

he then goes on to describe the technique I mentioned above

"The bar is tipped up only enough to clear the strings underneath the tip of the bar. The bar touches only the string being played."

"Gently with very little pressure downward, push the bar (or pull) over to the next string. Use the thumb pick only when playing single string."

"The thumb pick and tip of the bar must act in perfect coordination as the bar moves into and out of each string. NEVER lift the bar when playing single string passages. This is why the bar is rounded off on the front end, to allow tha 'p-tah' effect, 'sound against sound' with no gaps or dead-air in between notes."

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/008533.html

The links to some of the info ( mp3, sonograms, tabs) are long gone ... But you can listen to a different version of Hula Lady in this medley, starting at 2:03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_wH0lH6QQ4

P-tah, P-tah, P-tah, P-tah Tahhhh ...

Wow. Thanks Rick for that great example. I figured someone would chime in who knew light years beyond me.

I'm finding the technique really interesting and its fun to play with out having to worry about pick blocking.

Sounds like a combination of a bar pull-off and pick blocking. Whatever it is, I like it! I've been listening to Jerry's original recording of Hula Lady for 40 years and wondering how on earth he was able to move the bar from fret to fret so smoothly to play that melody. I'm pretty sure he played it on C6 tuning. I can get it fairly close on 8-string C6 with high G, but I can't imagine how he did it on his high E C6 tuning... or maybe he used some other tuning. The melody lays out well with the 5th on top. 5th, 3rd, root on strings 1, 2, 3.

Jerry's "p-tah" video demonstration and oral explanation has always been a "puzzlement" to me.

In the early part of the video he tells you to right hand palm block between single notes, using only your thumb for single note playng. Later, while showing the "p-tah", he appears to left hand block with his trailing fingers while plucking the strings with alternating thumb and index finger!

I taught myself both techniques and finally settled on the latter, 'cause it's less work for your right hand!

Using only your thumb for single string playing is absurd. I use whatever is handiest.

The way I always looked at p-tah was from the way the Hawaiians would sing the yodel if you can call it that,somewhat like chickin' pickin'. The song Hula Blues is what I consider an example of p-tah.

The P'tah involves completing a dragging effect with the bar from one string to the other. It is as if you are sliding away from one string and completing the slide into the next string but done smoothly and fairly quickly. That is my version of the P'tah.
Did I confuse anyone?

Aloha,
Don

Back to the original technique:

I played with this all night: practicing pushing the bar until it reaches the high point on the string, dragging it across the troughs formed by the gap between the strings, and hitting the note just as the bar hits the top of the string where everything else is mutted.

It was great fun. It makes for fast clean playing that sounds to my ear much more expressive than when I was using pick blocking.

Another tool in the belt.

I agree Don .... From that old post I wrote

On adjacent strings ... it's the "weaving" between notes with the bullet tip ...

On strings one or more apart ...It's the "bringing up" of the note just picked on a lower string ...Then a tilting of the bar ... at the exact instant that the higher note is picked ... slightly under its pitch ...

This slide up from the low ... the inconceivable "break" ... and the slide into the next higher note ...That is what gives the illusion that you just traveled on one string ... the whole way.

Visa versa for coming down ... Except you pull the bar off the higher string the instant the lower one is picked ... instead of tilting ...

It's not the lack of "silence" between two picked notes ... Its the "illusion" that everything is done on one string ...

Doug, the original version is the one I had linked to in the 2006 post ... Much higher tempo than the medley version off his final album.

The JB Pro Arrangement is in his standard C6/A7 ... With an E on top.

Here's the original passage:

[tab]
E---------8---------7--------5--------3-----------7--------
C-------------9--------7--------5--------2---------------------


E---------8-----------7--------5-------------------------8--------
C-------------9----------7--------5-6-7----------------------------
A---------------------------------------------7---------7-------------


E---------12----------10----------8---------7-------------------12----10----
C--------------12----------11---------9--------7-------------7-----------------


E-------12-10--------------------------7-------8-----------7-5-------------------------
C-------------------11-------------7---------------------------------7------------------------
A-----10-----------------7----8---------------------------7-----------7-5-------------------
G-------------------------------------------------------------------------------5-----------------
E---------------------------------------------------------------------------------5-3-------------
C#-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3---


[/tab]

I tried to imply time ...

The ones with 3 notes close together are triplets .... Slide from the 2nd note of the triplet to the third note in the triplet.

Most are eights .... The most isolated are quarters.

This is also a good warm up exercise ...

Hope that helps ...

Rick, thanks for posting the tab! I have the original recording so I know the timing, now I just need to practice it!

I have Jerry's big book. But in the video that Scotty also sells is there a good video representation of p-tah? I may be a bit thick headed but I may need to see it to really "get" it.

I think a good example can be found on his Steel Guitar Hawaiian Style LP,the song "Kawohikukapulani" before he goes into his harmonics verse and toward the end of the song.The video on you tube shows how he does it ,but the recording is much better IMO.

Thank you! That video I saw on you tube made it click for me!