The Steel Guitar Forum

The band I'm currently playing in does classic country, but we rarely play anything in the same key with the recorded versions. I've noticed we play most things a step and a half down from the recorded version.

I'm relatively new to playing steel and I'm trying to learn all the kickoffs and turnarounds. The problem is I'm learning them in the key the record is recorded in. When I convert to the key my band does it in, it just doesn't sound quite right.

Has anyone ever tuned their guitar down a whole step or even a step and a half? I guess that would be C#9 tuning or something like that. I'm hoping to be able to play some of the kickoffs and turnarounds in the positions in which I've learned in the recorded versions.

I have been there many times brother man...I always re learned the chops in a lower key, and having to do substitute runs, licks [higher maybe]etc to the best of my capable self.

Tuning down is done a lot, but i suppose it would be hard to spend a life doing specific tuning's to different situations. Next thing you know a singer comes along and does George strait's 'Nobody in his right mind' in Ab, when recorded and done in 'F'.

Say you tune down to D9...Then you might run out of frets in a song if 'E' high up the scale? Half a dozen of one and 6 of the other.

I wouldn't advise tuning down that much, as it would require re-stringing and also resetting of all the pedal and levers. If you can't play it like the recording, just get it close, trying to main the same idea and feel. One of the best things you can do as far as practicing is concerned is to try and learn to play the song in any key. Most times, it can be done, and while it may not sound be exactly the same, usually only the band will notice the difference. And...if they say anything to you about not playing it exactly like the record, look them straight in the eye and tell them that if they can't do it exactly like the record, then they shouldn't chastise you if you can't, either.

More than once, I got that "it don't sound like the record" look. Don't let it worry you. As you get better, those problems (and the dirty looks) will fade away.

Yea, sometimes I have to split the neck up and I feel like it prevents me from making things sounds right. For instance, we do Together Again in A major. I'm playing the break up really high starting on the 17th fret. It's cool up there, but would rather play it on lower frets so it sounds a little better to me. Maybe with more seat time, I will be able to not be stuck to the same positions where I learn things.

Tuning down won't help, because if you use the same strings, they'll be slack and sound different. If you use heavier springs, it will sound like heavier strings.

Brandon,one of the BIG reasons your band's versions "don't sound right" is they're in the wrong keys.If you're playing covers,they're supposed to be a recreation of the original,and the more accurate the better."Key color" is as essential a part of the recreation as correct lyrics and turnarounds...

I would think that musicians'and singers' egos being what they so often are,it probably isn't cost-effective to try to get the band to do things right,and you're probably best advised to consider the situation as free on-the-job training in transposing.Anything that makes you a better player also makes it easier to get a better gig.

If the singer can't hit the key of the hit, I'd abandon the idea of trying to copy exactly. Feel free to make it your own. But my influences rarely played it the same exact way twice (even Mike's signature intro to "Wait A Minute" was always evolving), and I'm a goofball.

Buck Owens and his band regularly tuned down a half-step, but I have not heard of anyone going any farther than that....

I love tuning down a half-step (when the band is still at standard tuning) because you get to play in the key of open-E and open-A (and all that other stuff) at the first fret.
If the whole band is tuned down, you are also right in tune with them like you would normally be if you all tuned to concert pitch.

The detail I'm NOT leaving out is...over the last 35 years I've acquiered three S12U Pedal Steels, and I keep only one of them dialed-in/set-up to be tuned down a half-step (otherwise known as Bb6th Universal), ie. string guages (I buy MSA Bb6th sets), pedal/lever adjustments (if you tune your regular steel down, you will have to adjust all your endplate tuners, and your overal tuning may get a little squirly due to "tension vs string guage", although your pedals and levers will feel really easy to enguage), and I also made a fretboard designed with markers at the positions I'm used to seeing them at (one fret up from stanadard, but still at the same chord positions, which makes it super easy to go between steels).

Donny: Sound advice! I get those looks all the time, but with hours of practice, I've noticed they don't come my way as often.

Lane: As always, you provide great insight.

Larry: Good points.

Dave H: I agree. That's kind of what I was thinking.


Thanks to all for the advice. I really appreciate it. It's tough to work with singers sometimes, but I suppose this is an opportunity to be creative and learn. I'm going to stick with the E9th tuning.

I tuned down so the low 10th string on my E9 was tuned to E.

I changed all the string gauges and pedals, levers and tuned everything correctly.

I took it to the gig and it sounded gosh awful.
It wasn’t out of tune and I had no problems playing within the different keys.

It was the tone and other sounds I can’t describe that just made me want to hide.

Never again.

The E9 sounds good just where it's at and if you want it lower jump over to a C6 neck or forget it.

Atta boy Branden, work it brotherman!

Here's an odd ball example of some Live work...Years ago i worked a road band that did Vince gill's 'Look at us' in the original key which i think was D...2 years later i worked another band who had a monsterous singer and he sang it wonderfully, but in Ab...I revamped the licks to what i could do using different than JH did, the same idea but on different strings, but it sounded realistic in a live setting. Sure it wasen't exact,[idealistic maybe] i was higher up on lower strings with different pulls etc.
I also got a pat on the back which helped me believe that Re-vamping was an ok thing and just a 'Real world experience' as a picker. As long as you do a nice job that you can work up smooth and tight, and preferably some tailored and signature licks, you will be just fine.

Bo, we've had this debate before. Since I happen to LOVE the sound of the steel on the lower frets, when I played A9, i loved the deep warm fat tone. Sure it can't do the piercing cry of Hugheyland, but I loved it.
Again, it proved incapable of rendering most of the hits the same way, but I've never put a premium on that

Eb9/Bb6 Universal solves all these problems.
It's nice to have one around.
Lane???... You have one, right???
Have you played it with a band tuned to standard pitch so as to be able to incorporate the open-E open-A stuff that is now at the first fret?

I once modified my tunings in order to duplicate some open string sounds on one of CT's very first albums. At home it sounded OK, but the job was a disaster, one of the worst I've ever played, and I've played some bad ones.

Before even going to bed that night I changed everything back and never waivered again.

Pete, thus far I've not used it open E. I'm thinking of raising the tuning to B6, but keeping the Bb6 changes, but having P1 make the bottom 3 go AEA for my baritone Tele licks

Lane...Your post's always amaze me, you are a highly intelligent man in many things...That's a great idea about the Tele Baritone, i'd love to have that Sound.

I'd had the idea while playing Dwight's "Little Ways," where on a whim I played Pete's baritone ride instead of my normal solo (a bunch of A and B pedal stuff played open as I used my left hand to drink a beer). It worked

EDIT: my other post had ACA, I'd meant AEA, like C6 with P8. It's fixed now

Years ago i worked a road band that did Vince gill's 'Look at us' in the original key which i think was D.

Actually, I believe it was in Eb and modulates to E. My drummer does this in D, and it screws up one part of the intro where Hughey slides to the 1st fret on strings 5 & 6 with the A & B pedals and the lever that that lowers his 6th string (giving him only a 1/2 step drop on 6) to give a 7th chord. In D, this would have to be done at the open position, and I could never get it to sound smooth. So I just have to stay at the 5th fret and drop down and hit strings 9,8 & 6 for the 7th chord. Not being a singer, it is hard for me to imagine why he couldn't do it in Eb as he sings many songs in D and E. But there must be a reason, and me not being a singer, well, it's hard to understand. But, it is our job to do our best in whatever key the singer needs to do the song in.

I tune both necks to C on one of my steels one neck is C9th and the other is C6 once you figure out string gauges it works quite well. I didn't have to alter the pulls much at all after getting the sting gauges right. Makes for a really fat tone on the 9th neck and for those singers than can't hit the notes it makes the licks sound closer. I don't do those gigs anymore so I will be converting it back to standard tuning soon.

http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/stringxxiii.html
Here's a link to a calculator to figure out what gauges work with what pitch and tension This is the one I used and it worked out well.

Larry, here ya go
http://youtu.be/mIDfEewtqgI

Ha ha, i like it lane, you crazy old fool!

So what tuning are you using then?

I played with a band about 2 years ago that tuned down a half step then used a capo 99% of the time. Go figure. Sure me me think outside my comfort zone which was really good practice for me.

The ride was cool, but you're gonna have to woodshed your chugalug to get that pint down in four bars, pal...

Chris