The Steel Guitar Forum

I'm seeing signs of a historical steel guitar rivalry here. I'm still young compared to you folks, so could someone fill me in?

The west coasties seem to hold themselves as true musicians who happen to specialize in psg, while the southerners seem hold themselves as being musical craftsman whose tool is steel guitar. Underlying this is the broader culture clash of a progressive, humanist self-image versus a traditionalist, cynical self-image.

I'm familiar enough with the history of popular music to know about the divergence of alt-country and country rock on the west coast with Flying Burrito Brothers, Eagles, etc., and the chic attitude created by it.

Wow, you have a lot of assumptions in there.

Rivalry? I don't ever feel that way. Every steel player is. "Bro" regardless of geography . Chalker from ''Bama, Emmons from Indiana, JD and Mooney from California. The list goes on ad infinitum......love 'em all.

Yeah it contains a lot of assumptions, that's why I want people to talk about it. All I have to work with are assumptions.

Hi Curt, I am an old musician who fails to understand your analogy of west coast vs south coast.

I am familiar with the West Coast sound, but what is the "South Coast Sound"?

What do you mean by "South Coast"?

I live near the "Third Coast", the Gulf of Mexico.

Curt Trisko wrote:I'm seeing signs of a historical steel guitar rivalry here.

What "signs" are you seeing of such a rivalry? What makes you think such a rivalry exists? When did it start?

The west coasties seem to hold themselves as true musicians who happen to specialize in psg, while the southerners seem hold themselves as being musical craftsman whose tool is steel guitar.

What indications do you have that such beliefs are held by either steel guitarists on the west coast or steel guitarists in the south? (I am assuming you're referring to portions of the USA, although we have steel guitarists from all over the world on this forum.)

Underlying this is the broader culture clash of a progressive, humanist self-image versus a traditionalist, cynical self-image.

Based on what? You make a lot of assumptions about issues without any indication you know what you're talking about. Isn't there room on the Steel Guitar Forum for a progressive, cynical self-image or a traditionalist, humanist self-image? What do those terms even mean in relation to steel guitar?

I'm just trying to stir the bowl and get people talking. The two groups I mentioned definitely are separate strains, even if I overstate the difference between them. But I really feel like I'm missing a few links of pedal steel history by not having perspective on the divergence. My understanding is that in the late 60s and early 70s there was some tension, broadly speaking, if not necessarily between steel players themselves.

You, sir, are no Bill Hankey.

Maybe you should come down to the SWSGA's big show in Phoenix sometime. We get both contingents here and it's probably the biggest melting pot of great music you'll ever hear.
The rivalry you speak of exists (in some people's minds) outside of the steel community for those who can't open their minds enough to let in other viewpoints but I believe that most steelers are way above that. There's lots of tradition here but I think that the love of this instrument transcends any perceived territorial rivalries. And this attitude goes beyond the players and extends to the true steel fans as well. They may have their preferences but most are open minded enough to know that good steel is good steel regardless of where it comes from. That is why steel has an international following. It may have started in America but it has been adapted world wide.
You should have seen the reception Jay Dee Maness got in St. Louis last year!
I think you're just trying to stir up trouble.

I am new to the forum and find this thread intriguing. It is amazing to me that one would need to stir the pot to get people talking when it comes to steel guitar. There are so many interesting and amazing aspects to the instrument itself as well as playing styles. Seems like discussing a supposed rivalry is a waste of good time. I agree with Darrell's comment because I was at the Phoenix show as well and saw how all the players, their differing styles, and the people in the audience all united together in a bond of mutual respect and love of the instrument. That is what it's all about.

It's funny...I was alive and listening to popular music at that time (late 60's early 70's).

Taking your example... If you know the Burrito Bros., then you know that Gram Parsons was a Florida kid and Chris Hillman was a California kid. The band produced what was called then "Cosmic American Music". Hardly a rivalry, but a "Melding" of styles.

I think it's good to stay away from sweeping generalities and assumptions. Aside from the competetive market of selling records, who knows if there was any "rivalry"? Purely subjective.

The differences you mention are something I see more within politics these days. But still I have experienced a little "California vs Nashville" in country music culture in general so I get where you're coming from. You just don't see it so much among steel players who seem to be above all that - especially the hipper ones from L.A.

I think it's arguable that the SC players got a lot of their influence and style from the WC players. The two rivalries, if we can call it that, were always the WC guys vs. the NV guys. The SC stuff was pretty minor, compared to either, IMHO.

YMMV

..seems to be an artifact of our Nations genisis. I recall aa recent comment on these pages about how the Western Swing Musiciain had a not so comlemintary view of their South Eastern "Hillbilly" peers. It all got straightened out due to advances in communication and the curious acceptance of one style over the other. We all jammin" now.

Seems the pay is just as good as Union or non-Union. so how many fingers did it take to make a note of what Steel Guitar players do in a bar. I think the BS of loyalty is out the window these days.You need a lawyer to be a great musicians or is this off color too! It's all about your neighobrhood in who you are dealing with.I don't like this fighing thing about us old or young musicians in todays world is good for anybody. But,I do think we need to really get is the true styles of music back in order of what is Traditional to each style of what kind of music you are playing and how the true style beats from a drummer let's you know what it is with the bass lines and that piano thing with it. So,just because you play a steel guitar that don't make you a Country Music musician. I do hope my millions of two cent helps. The God Father of Southern California Country Music and I've played with the greatist steel guitarist all over this Country in Clubs and recording sessions. Uncle Leo J.Eiffert,jr. taking back Southern California Country Music.

Curt Trisko wrote:Underlying this is the broader culture clash of a progressive, humanist self-image versus a traditionalist, cynical self-image.

I think this humanist/traditionalist dynamic may have been evident in bands and acts in general during the '60s and '70s, not just with regard to steel players. You would definitely have found way more humanists in L.A. than in Nashviille at this time due to differences in culture and religious beliefs. John Lennon's "Imagine" was the big humanist anthem of that time, and I doubt some of those lyrics ("imagine there's no heaven," etc.) resonated smoothly anywhere near the bible belt. As far as "cynical" goes, I'm not seeing that. However, there was certainly a ton of attitude emitting from Charleton, Emmons, et al on those TV shows of yore. It was a confidence that was well-earned.

The differences between musicians, however, was more evident in fashion than anything. (I'm assuming you mean California vs. Nashville when you refer to the "rivalry.") The West Coast definitely had the "hippie" thing happening moreso than Nashville. One example of this meeting of worlds would be the Sweetheart of the Rodeo sessions when Lloyd Green was brought into the studio to record with the Byrds in Nashville. Some eyebrows surely got raised when the Byrds played the Opry with their "longish" hair and such. And when Lloyd went to L.A. to finish some steel tracks, he may have been seen as exotic to west coast musicians due to his tendency to dress like a businessman for sessions - a Nashville norm at the time.

Regarding playing style, I hear in recordings of that time a more scooped "Fender" style in the West Coast players a la Ralph Mooney and such, while Nashville players tended to dial in that mid-range growl. That's a huge generalization, though, and I lay myself open for scrutiny there.

Therefore, I see it less as a rivalry and more as a societal difference. The steel players all seemed to love each other genuinely, as they still do now. Those differences - both in fashion and in playing style - were embraced and enjoyed.

Well said, Chris. I agree... no rivalry, just a difference in style going all the way back to the 1950s/60s. There seems to have been mutual respect among the steel guitarists.

Doug Beaumier wrote:Well said, Chris. I agree... no rivalry, just a difference in style going all the way back to the 1950s/60s. There seems to have been mutual respect among the steel guitarists.

Yes, Doug, it seems that steel guitarists genuinely enjoy each other's company and also enjoy learning something new at the same time.

Ben Elder wrote:You, sir, are no Bill Hankey.

PRICELESS!!!