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Topic: Original 65 Twin...NICE |
Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 7:42 am |
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OK, some weeks ago I posted that I came across a 65 Twin and was going to have it retolexed in cream and oxblood grill cloth. I got flamed for painting a mustashe on a Mona Lisa 
Anyway, here is about a clean a chassis you will get on a 47 year old amp. I am taking it to an amp tech for a test & burn and replace anything that it needs. The chassis has FM1865 ink stamped in the chassis.
The speakers were changed to 12 Electro Voice 12L and sound good. However, there is something about silver cones lurking behind a grill cloth. Any suggestions here or should I go with the 12L speakers and call it a day?
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 7:45 am
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WOW: Doug Baumier created a monster instructing me how to post pictures!  |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 8:21 am
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Wow, that is in beautiful shape, way too nice to re-tolex it unless the tolex is shot. Definitely meant no flame in my earlier post, but really, there aren't a huge number of early (Fender Elect. Inst. Co) blackface Twin Reverbs in that kind of shape anymore.
I personally love EVM-12L speakers for pedal steel, perhaps my favorite for pedal steel. But a pair in a Twin Reverb is a load to haul, for sure. For guitar, probably a bit clean for most tastes, and a pair of lighter-duty speakers would be a lot lighter also.
Even if you decide to keep the EVs in there for steel, I think it would be smart, long haul, to keep an eye out for a decent deal on a pair of original Jensen Concert speakers that it probably came with. Or it could have come with a pair of JBL D-120F's - but to my tastes, JBLs wouldn't be any better than what you have in there now, for pedal steel anyway. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 9:00 am
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Hi Dave:
Thanks for the insight. I may try to get a pair of D-120-F reconed as I am having the amp completely gone through including new hardware. I even have a new reverb tank not that it needs it but as long as I am going this far why not.
AND...It's gonna be cream tolex with oxblood grill and if that effects the value and I am committing a sacralidge so what? It's never gonna leave my house and my estate can deal with it...HA!
Lenny |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 9:24 am
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| Quote: |
| AND...It's gonna be cream tolex with oxblood grill and if that effects the value and I am committing a sacralidge so what? It's never gonna leave my house and my estate can deal with it...HA! Laughing |
OK, my conscience is clear - I tried.
On the reverb tank - understand that the only replacement reverb tanks are now made in Korea. The MOD tanks are OK, but definitely do not throw out or let the tech keep the old US-made Accutronics tank. They are valuable. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 9:46 am
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I say go for it!!
The amp is YOURS, not some fargng collector's.
Accept that some decrease in residual value will happen, but that just makes it affordable for the next cat who values tone over the opinion of a bunch of wankers who think amps belong locked in a closet.
Cream and oxblood sounds purty.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 10:40 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
... The amp is YOURS, not some fargng collector's.
Accept that some decrease in residual value will happen, but that just makes it affordable for the next cat who values tone over the opinion of a bunch of wankers who think amps belong locked in a closet.
Cream and oxblood sounds purty. |
Len has every right to do whatever he wants with the amp, nobody ever suggested he didn't. But that diatribe is out of line, IMHO. White tolex and oxblood grill cloth won't make the amp sound any better, and this has nothing to do with collectors or wankers who think amps belong locked in a closet. I and many others take our original old Fender amps out to gigs, that's what they were made for.
BTW - my main concern with irreversibly modifying classic vintage guitars and amps like this is not primarily about value, although that is certainly an issue. My primary concern is more about having a reasonable pool of original examples around in the future. Every year, a bunch of cool old vintage guitars and amps get either irreversibly modded or outright destroyed in some manner or another. This gradually depletes the supply of these cool old tools-of-the-trade, pushing collector-itis into even more of a frenzy. I personally dislike the hoarding-collector mentality, and the more rare this kind of stuff gets, the worse that will get.
My attitude is that if I want a modded example of a cool vintage guitar or amp, it's pretty easy to go out and find one at a fraction of the price. But to each his or her own. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 10:50 am
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Fair point, that.
If the original Tolex is still in good shape, I'd probably actually urge a replacement cab for the cream/oxblood. But I'd had the impression it needed help: at that point, I don't think color matters in a refurbished one
I do kinda bristle at the notion of musical equipment being equated with museum pieces
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 11:31 am
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Dave:
I will take your suggestion and keep the original reverb tack as I took it out of the pouch and it looks brand new.
I am not a collector but love the look of cream tolex as I have had many black amps and just want something different. I am not destroying this amp and who ever ends up with it years from now can always black tolex it and put the silver screen back on the grill.
Now, where can I gat a pair of D-130 JBL speakers? I'll post a pic next month when the amp gets completed. |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 12:01 pm
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Here's a cab I had Rick Johnson make, I did the Oxblood cloth, as I have a bunch of NOS from the 60's.
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 1:01 pm
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Len, old JBL D-120's come up now and then here on the forum and elsewhere. ebay always has a few listed, and I see them at guitar shows, although the show prices have gotten a bit ridiculous on decent ones. I've still got 3 with original cones that I've used in different amps over the years. I'll confess that I've gotten to the point where I usually prefer different speakers, but have had a hard time letting go of these as the prices have kept rising. In the right amp, they can be magic.
Ken, I love that, and I'll be that sucker honks. Putting an old chassis into a new cab is a good choice. It probably doesn't cost much, if any, more than getting someone who knows what they're doing to re-tolex and re-grill an original cabinet, and now you retain the integrity of the original cabinet. That's all I was suggesting. I've done it in the past to preserve a nice original cab from being tossed around in the back of a band van. Guys like Rick Johnson make a cab that is every bit as good as an original. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 2:27 pm
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Ken:
Now that's what I am talking about and I love the way the silver cone on that speaker looks through the grill cloth. The 12L speakers sound very nice and I wonder if the dust covers can be removed and silver ones installed and it' just a thougt? Heavey with the 12L's in there but once it's done it will stay in the same place and not get moved. |
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Bill L. Wilson
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2013 10:45 pm JBL'S vs. EVM-12L's
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| Having swapped JBL'S for EV's in my Twin, I personally liked the JBL'S best, and swapped them back. I was having a problem with the JBL'S cracking when I hit'em hard, at high volume. Turns out I didn't know the RED connection on my D120-F Orange frame speakers is not HOT, but it's the GROUND. So I stuck'em back in, reversed the wires, and my Twin is cookin' again. The EV's sound great with my Marshall head for guitar. Yeah, and I would split that amp into, 2cabinets, and save the original. If you have access to a table saw, cabinets are not that hard to build. Saws are unforgiving, watch your fingers, and keep'em on. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 7 Jan 2013 1:04 am
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Yikes, I just checked out some JBL D120 Fender orange speakers and they are a small fortune. I gonna have to rethink the "silver cone shining through the grill cloth"...  |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 7 Jan 2013 6:14 am
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Hey Guys, thanks for all the insight. The fact is, I can't carry anything any longer and there is a fellow 1 mile from me that does retolexing and grills and comes to my house and takes the chassis out, brings me samples of tolex and grill cloth and is very accomodating.
He has modified cabs and done all sorts of thinks that I can't put a price tag on. Oh well, in 8 days I'm 64 and will not be taking sky diving lessons anytime soon  |
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Rich Hlaves
From:
Wildomar, California, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2013 4:15 pm
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That's got to be the cleanest Twin chassis I have seen in a long time. Congrats.
If you want to save some weight and spend a bit less than what Vintage D120s cost the Weber Neo 12 is a good alternative. Aluminum dust covers and all.
I have the Weber 12s in my Twin Reverb and Tweed Twin. Also a pair of Weber Neo 15s in my Dual Showman non reverb amp.
_________________
On man....let the smoke out of another one. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 7 Jan 2013 4:21 pm
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Hey Rich:
Thanks for the info on the Weber New 12" speaker. I can't believe the prices people want for JBL-120 speakers.
I assume you use 8 ohm speakers in your twin? |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 5:39 pm
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OK, I have seen the light and met with the Tolex guy and the cab will be restored to oridinal black Tolex and correct era grill cloth with all new hardware. Should look like it came right from the show room when completed.
It will be svereral weeks or so but I'll post pictures.
Lenny |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 5:40 pm
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OK, I have seen the light and met with the Tolex guy and the cab will be restored to original black Tolex and correct era grill cloth with all new hardware. Should look like it came right from the show room when completed.
It will be svereral weeks or so but I'll post pictures.
Lenny |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 11 Jan 2013 3:31 pm
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Taking it back to original cosmetics is good stewardship....But blond/oxblood is waay cool and I've seen aftermarket brown faceplates (numbers on the plate so you could use white barrel knobs plus openings for the brite switch) that'll retrofit on a blackface chassis.
If I had a BF or SF Twin Reverb,I'd think real hard about a rough blond cab,but bigger like the TRRI Custom 15,with an oxblood grill cut for a 15" speaker,plus the brown faceplate and a flat Fender logo.Hmmmmm.............  |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2013 5:40 pm
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| Dave Hopping wrote: |
| Taking it back to original cosmetics is good stewardship....But blond/oxblood is waay cool and I've seen aftermarket brown faceplates (numbers on the plate so you could use white barrel knobs plus openings for the brite switch) that'll retrofit on a blackface chassis. |
Replacing the tolex with the same color is just about as bad as replacing it with whatever... the original tolex is what collectors want. The best option is to buy a replacement cabinet with the desired options and leave the old cabinet in storage for future generations... similar in cost to redoing the tolex.
And if someone puts a brown panel on a blackface I'll throw a screaming hissy-fit! There's only so much hack-butchery I can sit still for... comes from having butchered too many old Fenders in my time. Let them be!
_________________
Too much junk to list... always getting more. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Jan 2013 7:44 am
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| Len Amaral wrote: |
| Yikes, I just checked out some JBL D120 Fender orange speakers and they are a small fortune. I gonna have to rethink the "silver cone shining through the grill cloth"... |
In my younger days, when I was a kid and "looks" really mattered, me and another guitar player would regularly paint the dust-caps on Fender speakers silver to make them look like a JBL! It was pretty easy to get a very convincing "look" by cutting the bottom out of a large paper cup and standing that on the speaker, spraying down into the cup. PRESTO! Only 15 seconds work and a can of silver radiator paint for a jen-u-wine silver dome speaker!  |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 13 Jan 2013 5:57 pm
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| Stephen Cowell wrote: |
| Dave Hopping wrote: |
| Taking it back to original cosmetics is good stewardship....But blond/oxblood is waay cool and I've seen aftermarket brown faceplates (numbers on the plate so you could use white barrel knobs plus openings for the brite switch) that'll retrofit on a blackface chassis. |
Replacing the tolex with the same color is just about as bad as replacing it with whatever... the original tolex is what collectors want. The best option is to buy a replacement cabinet with the desired options and leave the old cabinet in storage for future generations... similar in cost to redoing the tolex.
And if someone puts a brown panel on a blackface I'll throw a screaming hissy-fit! There's only so much hack-butchery I can sit still for... comes from having butchered too many old Fenders in my time. Let them be! |
No hissy-fits please.I was just busy (virtually!) spending Len's money-I'm sure he'll thank me profusely  -on retolexing a presumably clapped-out amp in the original color,just as an auto restorer might put a new vinyl top on a '65 Chevy to replace a sun-struck original.I was,however,having so much fun with Len's budget that I began to think about how an aftermarket-cab rough blonde/oxblood TR with an original '65 chassis but an aftermarket brown faceplate might look.I do think the blonde/oxblood Twin was about the handsomest amp ever. |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 30 Jan 2013 4:57 pm Update on 1965 Fender Twin project
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Hey guys, this project is coming together nicely. The fellow who does my retolex and cab restoration contacted me and the cab is complete with new black tolex and grill, all new corners, chassis straps, tilt legs, and handle.
My amp tech tested and burned the chassis for several days and only had to replace two 12AX7 preamp tubes and checked all connections. the filter caps had already been changed along with a few capacitors.
Today, the UPS guy dropped off two Weber 12 inch aluminum cone, paper edge neo mag speakers so I may get evrey thing together this week and I will post pictures.
I want to thank everyone who made me see the light and go with original black tolex and grill instead of cream tolex and oxblood grill.
This is the amp that I use to see in the local music store 47 years ago.
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 30 Jan 2013 10:06 pm
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| Pics? We wanna see! |
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