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Topic: Something Less Then A Jam... |
Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 2 Feb 2013 2:09 pm |
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Ricks, post from the Tab Section.
"Jeff Newman says to start the fill while the singer is still active on the last beat before he rests."
It's funny you say this, because this is what I hear being done but I oftentimes feel awkward doing it, like I'm stepping on the vocals or, if at the end, I'm not ending soon enough. I guess that's something I need to get past; using my volume pedal to back off might make me more comfortable.
I've been thinking about something. I recall when I first started playing as a kid in the 1980's, before I gave it up to go to college and pursue my career, there was no Internet but occasional seminars being done in various cities. I don't know what existed back then for steel shows, but I had never heard of them. Do you suppose there is any interest in doing some sort of regional seminar hosted by us mere mortals?
Here is my concept: Find a venue where 10 or maybe 15 guys can set up, maybe even a music store thats willing to host for free, and have guys show up on a weekend and sit and learn from each other. I wouldn't want this to be a "jam" so to speak, where guys just sit and showcase their talents, but a venue where some of the solid players could pass around wisdom to each other. It would be an instructional atmosphere but by those of us who are still learning. Some of you guys have a lot of knowledge and while you may not think you can host your own instructional seminar, if we did it on an informal basis, we could sit around and share thoughts and ideas. Take southern Illinois for example. There are probably 20 guys that play steel, or more, within 200-250 miles of that area. All it would cost would be your hotel and means, and if we picked a smaller town hotel costs would be pretty cheap. Do you suppose there is an appetite for this? |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 2 Feb 2013 2:15 pm But More Then A Jam...
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| Hey Rick, That is a great idea and I believe it is being done in many places. I hope some of the players that are doing that will chime in here. |
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Rick Myrland
From:
New Orleans
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Posted 2 Feb 2013 2:43 pm
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Dick,
Thanks for moving this. About the time I finished my thoughts it stuck me that I was getting way off topic for the tab section...that's what I get for rambling.
_________________
Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120 |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 2 Feb 2013 3:01 pm To Jam or to Jam not, that is the question...
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Two Saturdays ago, I attended a "Sharing" in Columbus, Oh. It was hosted by Mr. Gary Preston, the president of the Ohio Steel Guitar Association, OSGA. It was the best setting that could have been possible in my opinion. Zero pressure to perform, very loose and comfortable. We didn't have an agenda, but I thought we had fun and "Shared" some of what each of us brought to the table. We were very fortunate to have with us, a well known and experianced pro, Mr. Sonny Curtis, who played with George Jones some years back. Everything he said was gold. And he is the most humble friend a person could have.
I would have liked to have seen a few talking points to give us some direction, but it still was a good and valued event. One I much prefer to what I've come to expect as "Jams", at least in our area. Don't get me wrong, there are many that like and even prefer Jams, but for me, I find them, for the most part unproductive. Maybe as I advance my playing ability, (to be able to digest what another player is playing, real time), that view will change. For now, well it is all about the learning. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 6:32 am
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| Quote: |
| Here is my concept: Find a venue where 10 or maybe 15 guys can set up, maybe even a music store thats willing to host for free, and have guys show up on a weekend and sit and learn from each other. |
IMHO, 10-15 players is just too many. If this is to be an exchange, where not one player, but everyone teaches and learns, having more than 5 or 6 players severely limits any players contributions. With 15 players, for example, if time were spread equally, each player would get about 4 minutes of "exposure" an hour. With 10 players, it would be only a little better (at 6 minutes per player). Plus, there's the space requirements for that many players, hundreds of square feet, literally, and you don't find that much open space in many stores. Then, there's the idea of why would a music store host such an event if they didn't carry pedal steel guitars? (A bunch of middle-aged guys playing classic country doesn't exactly do much to boost sales in a modern music center.)
Personally, I think that events like this are best with 5 or 6 players. They can be held in a garage or basement, or even a porch in the summertime. Everyone gets at least 10 minutes, enough for 2 or 3 songs, and the whole event is more intimate and enjoyable.  |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 8:21 am
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I think this would work if it was approached in a seminar fashion. Picking a "trouble spot" and focusing on one hurdle at a time. Choosing a subject line for each session and not trying to ingest too much at one time would be the determining factor. Those that are not struggling and have found the solution could tutor those that have not. For me trying to learn too many things at one time became frustrating and unproductive. I would like to be in a position to take advantange of something like this, but it ain't gonna happen here. Too remote, not many here have ever seen one up close let alone knowing what you're playing on. Golden opportunity to advance. JMHO  |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 11:06 am
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First ask yourself why would I want to go?
Is it too get free lessons?
I’d have to question the quality of the lessons in this scenario. The fact ts that I’m not really going to achieve goals limiting it to what I can learn for free.
Is it to pitch something I want to sell?
It’s a pretty dumb idea to show up at these meeting and give away samples of my chops and then think I’ll gain students that will want to pay me for what they think they can get for free at these meetings. It’s way to limited exposure to audition for a pickin’ gig or build my image.
Is it just an excuse for another party?
For just a party this is sadly lacking in to many aspects to be a consideration.
Most would say leave me out of it.
But if you were to hire a good teacher or teachers and a bunch of folks showed up and plopped down their money, Now your talking! |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 11:16 am
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We used to hold similar club meetings in Kalamazoo when I first started in the late '70s, with 10-12 steelers, a drummer and guitar, and it was a lot of fun. Sometimes it would just be informal jamming, sometimes we'd have a subject that would be covered more in depth. When I got back from Jeff Newman's school they had a meet where they asked me to talk about what I had learned. I remember it as being a lot of fun and exposure to different ideas, and a great networking tool.
_________________
Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 12:08 pm
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Not everything has to be a College level where you have to shell out money to some presumed know it all, especially if there is some "snot nosed " kid that has the same thought in his head and is willing to share it for a place to fit in. The least of us has something to offer, even the smallest nuance can make a great difference. Not everyone is looking to play on a Pro scale for the fame of it. There are those that would be proud and feel achieved just to learn it and feel satisfied for their own amusement. JMHO  |
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Rick Myrland
From:
New Orleans
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 2:47 pm
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I agree with Ray. I'm never going to pay my mortgage from playing nor do I expect to, but that doesn't mean amateurs like me can't help each other out. I get a kick out of the comment you'd question the quality of a fee lesson. Really? Isn't all the posts on this forum free? Certainly some of them have little value, but some of them are priceless. And some of the most helpful have been from people who are "amateurs".
I do agree that having a professional instructor would be a good idea, but if that's not an option then the discussion is pointless. I recall back in the 80's some professionals would hold these type of seminars, there was one in Milwaukee one time. Those events, sadly, seem to have gone by the wayside except at some steel shows.
_________________
Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120 |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 6:44 pm Re: Something Less Then A Jam...
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| Dick Sexton wrote: |
Ricks, post from the Tab Section.
"Jeff Newman says to start the fill while the singer is still active on the last beat before he rests."
It's funny you say this, because this is what I hear being done but I oftentimes feel awkward doing it, like I'm stepping on the vocals or, if at the end, I'm not ending soon enough. I guess that's something I need to get past; using my volume pedal to back off might make me more comfortable.
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Jeff Newman was a great teacher and player, but his words aren't the "be all - end all" when it comes to playing. Each great player has a different style and idea about playing, and we should embrace the differences. Of course, if you don't know how to back up and use the volume pedal properly, it's probably best to stay well in the background. But if your playing can enhance the song and singer, by all means, play!
Here's an example from an old Buck Owens song. Both Tom and Don are playing overtop of Buck in a lotta places. But because the tones are thin, because they're playing mostly single-string stuff, and because they're not overpowering Buck, the result is quite listenable, even exceptional when compared to so much modern stuff where the bass, lead, and drums are so loud and overpowering that anything anyone else does becomes "the straw that broke the camel's back".
I say all this because I'd like to see us keep pedal steel a contributing part of the sound, and not just an instrument that does some soft pads and atmospheric stuff, and a few grace notes here and there. Yeah, yeah, I know, I know - I've heard all that "What you don't play is more important than what you do play" aphorisms from everybody and his brother. But that's not a do-or-die commandment that applies to every player and every song. Once in awhile, if we can't or don't do something special, we quickly become rather "expendable". And so, I give you my own aphorism:
"The less you play, the less they really need you."
Think about it.  And while you're doing it, enjoy what Tom and Don are pulling off right under Buck's nose!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1FSxaFY5Pw |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 3 Feb 2013 8:02 pm
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Right on Donny.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 4 Feb 2013 1:27 am
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Not following the rules of music is exactly why this sort of get-together doesn't last and won't work.
Anyway if this is all a person wants out of the PSG they will still become a professional.
A professional at loading, unloading, setting up and tearing down. |
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Ray Anderson
From:
Jenkins, Kentucky USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2013 5:14 am
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| Just for the record, I am the the one that posted the Newman quote. I did that to pass along a piece of information from a "Pro" that happens to be a teacher of this instrument. I know that he is not the " say all- end all", but it was a place to start. His instructions are the ones that I chose to teach to me this instrument. I don't think it wise to surpass his accomplishment until I have spent as much time and learning as he has done in his lifetime. IMO 2 to 3 years is not sufficient time with this instrument to start thinking that you are on a pro level. After all good insturction is slow and methodical, unless you want to be a "flash" in the pan and burn out. I think rushing the beginner is a mistake and good sound advice to them from the veterans, is wisdom. |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 4 Feb 2013 7:13 am Hummm....
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"Something less then a jam!"
So I guess the question is, is something less then a Jam a better setting for "Learning", then a Jam situation.
A jam, discribed as having a bass, drums, rhythm/lead guitar, maybe keyboard, pa and singers, attended by 10 to 15 steel player all set up and eager to show their stuff.
Or something less then a jam. Maybe, 3 to 6 steel players, set up in a circle having a questions and answers session. Maybe with a recorder to play examples of points being discussed.
No one is arguing wheather having an experianced instructor is or might not be of more value. That is another subject altogether. In some areas this might be near impossible, if not cost prohibitive.
Many roads, many goals... Many questions, many answers. Yours might be the best. |
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Rick Myrland
From:
New Orleans
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Posted 4 Feb 2013 7:25 am
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"Or something less then a jam. Maybe, 3 to 6 steel players, set up in a circle having a questions and answers session. Maybe with a recorder to play examples of points being discussed."
Exactly. I don't think you need to be a "pro" to teach. I've taken lessons from a number of "pros" who are excellent players, but not very good instructors. Just because you can do it doens't necessarily mean you can teach it. And, two players with the same amount of time playing have both approached the instrument differently, have different backgrounds, and have emphasised different aspect of the steel to varying degrees, so does it matter if those two players have 2 years playing or 20?
And regarding Donny's statement, I think you make an excellent point, thanks for making it. I need to change my approach to backing the singer, you gave me the courage to do that.
_________________
Mullen G2; Fender Tone Master Twin Reverb; Goodrich L-120 |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 4 Feb 2013 12:02 pm
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Actually, the only harm I see is if someone that has developed a bad habit, spreads that knowledge (or lack of) to others that may think he is right. But then, what we may think is a bad habit, may work quite well for someone else.
I don't see that this is a bad thing. The jams usually do turn into a showcase for talents and not much good for learning.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Douglas Bone
From:
Fort Worth,Tx. USA
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Posted 4 Feb 2013 6:22 pm
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Mickey Adams Utube is very useful, pause, backup, restart etc. 1 on 1. Doesnt cost much if you have a laptop or tablet.
_________________
D10 Sho-Bud,D10 Mullen Pre RP, Session 500, N12 |
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