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Topic: PP Numbers |
Randy Gilliam
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2013 6:51 pm |
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Anyone Know Where I can get The Serial Numbers For The Years of the Push Pulls, Thanks Randy G.  |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2013 6:57 pm Emmons Serial Numbers
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Here you go my friend!
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Randy Gilliam
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2013 7:21 pm Thanks Lynn.
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Thanks Lynn, I Got 1253 D It is a 1968 Randy G.  |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2013 8:42 pm
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Why does that list keep getting resurrected when people who purport to know about Emmons guitars know that the 1960s numbers are inaccurate?
For example, do you really think The Blade, a cut tail, is an early 1967 guitar? Really?
This has been corrected so many times on the Forum the topic is worn out.
It would perhaps be better just to think of Emmons guitars in terms of evolution.
1964 Wraparounds on a case by case basis as so many changes were made with each guitar.
1964 Wraparound/Bolt-on D10
1965 Wraparound D10
Invoice number Wraparound D10
Invoice number Wraparound S10
Invoice number red belly Bolt-on D10
Invoice number black belly Bolt-on D10
Serial number with D Bolt-on D10
Early Cut Tails with cut backs and wide pedals
Fat back Cut Tails
Cut tails with narrow pedals and cut backs
Cut tails with LeGrande pedals
I do not know much about 1970s Emmons guitars, but I understand that the posted number chart is pretty accurate for guitars made after 1974, but I cannot confirm that.
I made my list above very simple. I left out the countless details that can pinpoint when a guitar would have been produced, or at least which era parts were used. For example, I have found six different bellcrank styles, four different styles of pedals, a couple different keyheads, and changes in the cabinets and other castings used in the 1960s.
My interests are in Emmons guitars with 24 frets.
If someone talks about the tone of an old Emmons, that is nonsense. It depends on who restored the guitar. I know the value of sending my guitars to Mike Cass. I can put an Emmons together with my eyes closed, but Mike Cass has the depth of experience and the Emmons-specific techniques to make push pulls bloom. That is why Mike Cass is an Emmons Factory Authorized repair station and has been for so many years. A lot of people own a set of screwdrivers, but they cannot make that claim.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Bill Lowe
From:
Connecticut
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Jim Hollingsworth
From:
Way out West
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 10:23 am Beyond '81?
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Hi Lynn,
Do you have the serial numbers beyond '81? And - what year did they stop building the p/p guitars?
Thanks!
Jim |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 11:37 am Re: Beyond '81?
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| Jim Hollingsworth wrote: |
Hi Lynn,
Do you have the serial numbers beyond '81? And - what year did they stop building the p/p guitars?
Thanks!
Jim |
Chris, I'm sorry if you took offense but I posted that list only because my friend Randy asked for it and did it as a friendly favor to him. It's a very well known fact for most folks here, that it is not entirely accurate. I believe it came originally from the old Carter web site and it just seems to be a general guideline of sorts.
I think most everyone here (myself included) is very well aware of your vast knowledge and expertise, along with Mike Cass and his very broad experience, knowledge and playing ability to boot! I'm sure we all owe folks like you a great deal of gratitude.
Jim, I know of no such other list that goes beyond those years (but that does not mean there isn't one somewhere). I believe that the push-pull guitars were being built at least through the mid 80's but certainly not in numbers like in prior years. They built a very limited number of 25 year anniversary commerative push-pull guitars in the late 80's and then of course the reissues, starting about 2004 and beyond.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 12:06 pm
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| Quote: |
Why does that list keep getting resurrected when people who purport to know about Emmons guitars know that the 1960s numbers are inaccurate?
For example, do you really think The Blade, a cut tail, is an early 1967 guitar? Really?
This has been corrected so many times on the Forum the topic is worn out. |
| Quote: |
Chris, I'm sorry if you took offense but I posted that list only because my friend Randy asked for it and did it as a friendly favor to him. It's a very well known fact for most folks here, that it is not entirely accurate. I believe it came originally from the old Carter web site and it just seems to be a general guideline of sorts.
I think most everyone here (myself included) is very well aware of your vast knowledge and expertise, along with Mike Cass and his very broad experience, knowledge and playing ability to boot! I'm sure we all owe folks like you a great deal of gratitude.
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I don't see the need to be so blunt and opinionated for a question asked by Randy and a polite answer posted by Lynn. Both Randy and Lynn are great guys! I think this was an attempt to learn something from someone not as knowledgeable about early model Emmons such as yourself or Mike Cass's experience with refurbishing Emmons PP's. I've seen some of Lynn's work and it is amazing to say the least. Lynn also frequently helps others in regards to these steels and his insight and experience is very helpful.
Dave |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 12:18 pm
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The list did not come originally from the Carter site, it was simply posted on the Carter site. It somehow became perceived as an official serial number information. The list was posted alongside videos with misguided advice on how to restore an Emmons. Remember the video on how to remica a guitar? Charles Reece and Fabian proudly proclaimed that they were reapplying the original mica on that 1964 Emmons, and yet they had to use a laminate trimer to remove the excess mica. A trained chimp knows that they must have made a mistake with that cabinet if the original mica was too wide. Although it is not evident in the video, I will tell you that every bellcrank was installed backward and one of the pull rods shorted out the selector switch because they did not understand how that guitar is different from later push pulls.
I bought that guitar soon after it was restored in that video. It had to be torn down and redone. At least they did not deceive anyone with their restoration videos. They made most of their mistakes very evident.
It would have made a great Bob and Ray bit.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Bill Lowe
From:
Connecticut
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 12:48 pm
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I did not perceive it as an official list. It should be used it as a guideline. This was listed with the numbers on the site.
Please Note: These serial numbers apply to D-10's only. After each number, the letter "D" is stamped. Great care has been taken to verify the accuracy of this information with various "Push-Pull Experts" around the U.S. However, we cannot guarantee the information given in the above chart is 100% accurate.
In the years 1964 and 1965, it appears that serial numbers were taken off of the sales invoice; and that these guitars were not consecutively numbered (as they may have used an invoice or 2 in between guitar sales for pickup sales or string sales, etc.)
Also, at a certain point, it is possible that the endplates were serialized ahead of guitar construction and put on a shelf, and then taken down and assembled into a guitar at a later date. Therefore, it is possible that some numbers may fall into one year earlier or later than shown on the chart.
_________________
JCH D10, 71 D10 P/p fat back, Telonics TCA 500C--12-,Fender JBL Twin, Josh Swift signature. |
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Marty Neer
From:
Kansas, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 2:51 pm p/p
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| Randy, Check your PM. Thanks, Marty |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 3:53 pm
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| Bill Lowe wrote: |
In the years 1964 and 1965, it appears that serial numbers were taken off of the sales invoice; and that these guitars were not consecutively numbered (as they may have used an invoice or 2 in between guitar sales for pickup sales or string sales, etc.)
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Bill, this is misinformation you are stating. You are wrong. Make an effort to be accurate. I am tired of cleaning up messes of misinformation about Wraparounds.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Bill Lowe
From:
Connecticut
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Posted 10 Jan 2013 6:56 pm
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I simply showed what was listed with the serial numbers. Because it was in fact listed with the s/n it is a very accurate post on my part. I think Randy has a better idea what year his guitar is. I dont think he asked any questions about wraparounds. If you have a better answer to his question please let us all know. Shouldn't come down to this......... Thanks
_________________
JCH D10, 71 D10 P/p fat back, Telonics TCA 500C--12-,Fender JBL Twin, Josh Swift signature. |
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