Wiring help with Hilton Pedal please

Pete Conklin · Post by **Pete Conklin** » 26 Dec 2012 2:30 pm

I just bought this pedal from a forum member and it looks like he tried to add this 1 mgg ohm resistor mod
(http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=)

But the volume pedal still affects both outputs. I'm trying to get one output to be "tuner" designated and unaffected by the VP.

Would anyone know how to correct this?

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 26 Dec 2012 3:34 pm

The pot is wired as it should be... The center jack would be designated tuner only, far right jack steel, far left jack amp. Might help if we had a pic of the pedal panned out so the whole bottom of the pedal could be viewed. Best I can do with that picture Pete...

Pete Conklin · Post by **Pete Conklin** » 26 Dec 2012 3:45 pm

I just double checked it again and put the tuner on the middle jack. and no good. Volume pedal still controls the output of that jack.
Heres a wide view:

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 26 Dec 2012 4:49 pm

I see you have added labels to your first picture. If that is how the pedal is labeled, email me I have a couple other ideas.

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 26 Dec 2012 6:00 pm

Email sent...

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 26 Dec 2012 6:18 pm

Wrong wiring for a dedicated tuner out. You need something different if you want a good tuner out, and one where you can tune in silence. Get rid of the resistor hooked betweent the two outputs in the picture. Pick the output you want to be the tuner. Clip off the signal wire, but leave the ground wire. Next-See the two resistors sticking up near the two chips?
Hook a .1uf capacitor to any place on the two resistors sticking up. Then on the other end of the . 1uf capacitor hook a 300K resistor. Tie the other end of the 300K resistor to the signal connection on the tuner output. The capacitor is to protect against DC and also smooths things out. Dick,you said the Pot is wired as it should be. Guess what Dick, the pedal does not have a Pot, it works from infra red, like your T.V. remote control. Dick, where did you come up with the idea there was a Pot wired as it should be? Hope this information helps.

Pete Conklin · Post by **Pete Conklin** » 26 Dec 2012 6:54 pm

Dick, that WORKED!!! I just moved the right wire over to the left jack making the center jack the "tuner" out.

Thanks for your help Mr. Sexton!!!!

Dick Sexton · Post by **Dick Sexton** » 26 Dec 2012 6:57 pm

Keith, I misread his original post and did not recognise the first picture he put up a Hilton Pedal. Ment no harm nor disrespect.

Pete, disreguard all I've suggested, this is Keiths pedal and he now has the dot.

Pete Conklin · Post by **Pete Conklin** » 26 Dec 2012 7:07 pm

Cool, thanks for you help Keith.

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 26 Dec 2012 7:29 pm

I am getting an education in more ways than one. Good call Dick.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 26 Dec 2012 9:10 pm

Dick, I did not mean any dis-respect. Only trying to help. I got a private e-mail with someone telling me I was showing dis-respect to Dick. I may quit posting hardly anything. Even when you try and help someone people take anything you say the wrong way. It is like people walking around with a big chip on their shoulder. Heck all I was trying to do is help and I get someone jumping on me.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 26 Dec 2012 10:50 pm

I say keep on, Mr. Hilton. I personally prefer it when people correct my misconceptions. While I've seen you (and others) get testy on here, that wasn't one of those times.

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 27 Dec 2012 3:54 am

Hey Keith,
I see no disrespect in your post,who better to tell you what to do than the builder..so don't get butt hurt on it... )))and keep posting!!!

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 27 Dec 2012 10:50 am

So how come the standard old "connect the output to the input through a resistor" isn't advisable on the Hilton (the Dick Sexton mod)? Instead, Keith advises taking the tuner output off the circuit somewhere...why is that? Is it just to provide absolute isolation, even greater than the normal mod will give?

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 27 Dec 2012 11:15 am

I am not upset or mad at anyone, and I hope no one is upset with me. It is easy for someone to take what you say the wrong way. Now, let me get back to trying to help Pete. Pete, there are some reasons I do not install the tuner output like you are doing it with one resistor. Installing it with a resistor coming off the input signal will change the impedance of the guitar pickup. When you change impedance you change tone, and output signal. How much the tone is changed, and how much the signal is changed, can vary greatly from guitar to guitar. When you connect anything, there is the possibility for CD. You can discharge 2,000 volts just walking across the carpet and touching a door knob. To protect against DC I use a capacitor as it will not pass DC. For all the above reasons I come off after the pre-amp stage of the pedal. Yes,Pete, Dick's method will work, but it would not work for me as a manufacturer. I try to design where the design will fit the most people. Plus I have to think of every possible failure mode. In the last 16 years I have seen a little bit of everything. I have a University degree in Mathematics, a 4 year degree in Electronics, and 16 years experience building the same product. With all that experience, and training, I am just now starting to understand how little I know about electronics. I know even less about being a social butterfly.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 27 Dec 2012 11:25 pm

Keith Hilton wrote:Installing it with a resistor coming off the input signal will change the impedance of the guitar pickup.

Looked like a 1megohm resistor to me... not a lot of change there, eh?

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 28 Dec 2012 4:23 am

Keith, don't let certain attitudes or comments bend you out of shape or keep you from helping those in need
i can testify, that YOU helped me greatly when i was stuck in the muck
warranty that i know of, is not covered when a product has been modified or " tampered" with
shucks ! look at all those peavey amp mods
warranty is nul & void is'nt it ?
it's at the user's risk is'nt it ?
it sure helps when the builder gives advice
certain mods are advantageous & can even be adopted by the builder
have'nt seen much of that tho.....

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 28 Dec 2012 12:06 pm

CrowBear, good to hear you are still alive and kicking. I always try and help people any way I can.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 28 Dec 2012 12:41 pm

Stephen, sorry, I forgot to answer your post. Stephen, years ago we used to use a one meg ohm resistor with a .1uf capacitor. When using that much resistance the current flow is reduced dramatically. We found that some tuners needed more current than the one meg resistor would allow. In addition to that, some guitar pickups are not as powerful as other, which makes the value of the resistor even more important. If a tuner is not getting the current needed to operate it may not work properly or not at all. Our pedals are sold world wide and used in all kinds of hookup situations. Stephen the tuners you are familiar with may work just fine with one meg resistors limiting current flow. Stephen the guitars you are familiar with may put out a lot of current flow. My choice of resistor is not something random, or something I have heard on the internet. My choice of resistor, and capacitor, to make a tuner output work, comes from thousands of pedals being used with thousands of tuners world wide. I hope this information helps you understand.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 28 Dec 2012 1:05 pm

Keith Hilton wrote:
Stephen Cowell wrote:
Keith Hilton wrote:
Installing it with a resistor coming off the input signal will change the impedance of the guitar pickup.
Looked like a 1megohm resistor to me... not a lot of change there, eh?
My choice of resistor, and capacitor, to make a tuner output work, comes from thousands of pedals being used with thousands of tuners world wide. I hope this information helps you understand.

OK, I understand that a 1meg resistor won't change the guitar's sound and probably works with his tuner. I also understand that you've given us your factory solution for a tuner output... a series RC network taken from after the buffer stage. If the OP wants his pedal to be factory spec he'd better adhere to the mod you gave.

Funny that he thought there was a pot in there!

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 28 Dec 2012 1:19 pm

Stephen, I saw on your profile you are into software design. I have a good friend I went to school with that works for Rack Space in San Antonio. Also, my grilfriend's daughter lives in Austin. When we come down to visit I may look you up.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 29 Dec 2012 9:36 am

Keith Hilton wrote:Stephen, I saw on your profile you are into software design. I have a good friend I went to school with that works for Rack Space in San Antonio. Also, my grilfriend's daughter lives in Austin. When we come down to visit I may look you up.

Try to make it on a second Sunday... then you can attend our co-op meeting/jam. The burgers are good but the band is better!

William Hughes · Post by **William Hughes** » 29 Dec 2012 2:48 pm

I, think this is what Mr. Hilton is describing for a tuner out. The .1uf cap is soldered to the resistor that is sticking up then to a resistor and to the center jack in this case. So the center jack is my tuner out.

Chuck Blake · Post by **Chuck Blake** » 1 Jan 2013 3:07 pm

Well after reading this posting, I decided to do the "tuner mod" on my Hilton pedal.

Great idea and very convienent. Had to email Keith a couple of times but got it done. Keith was very helpful and friendly. He's a great guy to do business with.

Thanks again Keith

Chuck

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 3 Jan 2013 8:40 am

I don't have a Hilton pedal, but I have great respect for Keith for always standing behind his product and always helping anyone who has a issue with it.
Great job Keith !!!

The Steel Guitar Forum

Wiring help with Hilton Pedal please

Wiring help with Hilton Pedal please

Assuming...

Hummmm....

Hope this is some help...

that fixed it!

Hilton Tuner Out

Got My Tuner Mod Finished