Universal copedent

Henry Senior · From: United Kingdom

Hi this is my first post Shocked

.

I'm a pedal steel player from the UK. Just started playing a little keyless 4x6 Uni. I did a fair amount of research before I got it set up. My E9 had a weird setup which I got used to, this affected my uni set up.
(the main weird thing being I raise Es LKL but lower RKL, my E9 didn't have an LKR and nor does the uni)

I am reconsidering my uni copedent and I just wanted to bounce some ideas around.
I have read and learned a lot here already (particularly about E9/B6 uni vs B6/E9, the one lever for raising and lowering Es with a half stop seemed like genius! not sure if I'm brave enough to go there..!)

Anyhow my current copedent is

LKR: Raise Es to F
LKV: Flatten top B to Bb
RKL: Lower Es to Eb and D# on 2 to C#
RKR: Lower D# on 2 to D

then pedals are:

A B 8 4 5 7

Which I think is Jeff Newman's setup but without the C pedal.

The first thing I'm thinking of doing is changing the pedals to:

A B 7 5 4 8

this is cos pedal 7 (raise B on 5 to C# and G# on 6 to A#) seems most immediately useful in both sides of the neck, and pedal 8 (boo-wah?) is the one I expect to use least.

Any advice much appreciated,

Henry

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Henry Senior · From: United Kingdom

thanks Earnest.

that sounds like a good idea, then in combination with the A pedal you get the same sort of thing but more versatile. And the F#6/D#min7 chord you get is extended down to string 9 (on Uni or 10 on E9).

hmmmmm..!

Henry

Henry Senior · From: United Kingdom

another question on uni copedents

do people typically have their second string as a D# or C#?

I've got mine as D#, lowered to C# when I lower the Es, but this increases the travel on the lever.

If you have it as a C# string then do you have a dedicated raise to D# lever?

(Apologies if this is a well trodden subject, and if it is, any links to previous posts would be appreciated)

thanks

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

http://b0b.com/tunings/mperlowin.html

Henry Senior · From: United Kingdom

fantastic! not just a great copedent but a great explanation too.

the next thing I was going to ask about was redundancy in universal tunings but I think Mike Perlowin has done the work and answered most of my questions already.

wrist levers eh?! hmm..!

Just downloading Mike's album from Amazon..

thanks Georg

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Henry, I notice you're not pulling your 4th string E up to F# ... Most have that on the 3rd pedal depending if you have the Emmons setup but a minority have it on a knee lever, is there a reason you don't have it...it's an essential pull.

Micky Byrne U.K.

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Henry....re the 2nd string....most have a double lower to "D" ... lots to do when you get the "D" lower. Apart from unison with Pedal 1 and 2 and the full lower on 2nd string, you can use the "D" and 1st pedal pulled to C# and release slowly to get a good counterpoint...meaning one note goes up and one goes down...very melodic.

Micky Byrne U.K.

Henry Senior · From: United Kingdom

Hi Micky, my uni (actually I think you may be familiar with it but I'll get onto that) has only got 6 pedals.

I've got the C pedal raising E to F# on my other psg which is E9, but I thought that was the best one to lose given having only 6 pedals and wanting to try the four main uni pedals.

I play the minor chord that B and C give with A and B and the F# from the first string.

To be honest I'm quite keen to keep my pedals and levers to a minimum.

The guitar in question is a Bennett keyless which has recently been worked on by Dave Wiggins, who said he asked you about it. I think it's been round the block a bit and has some problems..

re the 2nd string I have my lever which lowers Es doing the lower to C# on string 2. but I know a few players have string 2 tuned to C# and then raise to D and D#. I have read some useful info on this in the link to Mike Perlowin's copedent above.

Lastly! The double lower. Is this possible if I have the 2 string lower also raising the 9th to D?
I dont know much about mechanics/engineering!

Are you gigging much in the London area? Would love to come down.

Cheers,

Henry

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Henry...not sure where you live, but Dave is only about 2 miles from me. I know that Bennett well...I almost bought it Very Happy

I do some sessions now rather than gigs, but I don't mind,I've had so many years of roadwork, it burns you out at the end. If you're not too far from me you're welcome round to my place. I have both my universals in the front room. My Sho-Bud was an extension E9th, but Dave made all the bits to make it a universal of sorts. It's 4 pedals and 6 knees. Used to have 7 knees, but these days I try to do more with less. The Carter is standard 7 pedals and 5 knees, and a dream to play Very Happy

Take care,

Micky

www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

I strongly believe in lowering the E's with the RKR in a Uni tuning. That way when you play 6th style chords your right leg can stay out of the way and near the volume pedal, and your left leg is free to roam the whole pedal board without obstacles. All you need to do is flop your right leg to the right, let gravity do the work, and doodle away to your heart's content in B6...
_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb.

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Bob...yes RKR for me too, and like you say if you're going for the 6th sounds. You can leave your right knee there and let the left foot work all the pedals and any left verticals that's there.

Micky Byrne.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I think I'd suggest combining the 2 E string levers into one, with B6 the open tuning, hold RKR against a half stop for the Es, and all the way over for the F lever (put P5 on RKL since you wouldn't want E9 changes on a lever you couldn't use when 4&8 were at E).
It's not hard to get the 2 moving together, I did it on an MSA classic
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Henry Senior · From: United Kingdom

Bob, yep, that makes sense. I'd have to relearn everything! But it does make sense.

Lane, I have read some of your other posts on this and it is such a great idea. How do you cope with vertical levers or moving away from pedals A and B when holding the lever in the E position?

What do you guys do with your 2nd string? D# lowering

Bob Simons · From: Kansas City, Mo, USA

I lower my 2nd string a full stop on RKR with the lowered E's. RKL lowers 2nd string 1/2 and raise 9th string B 1 1/2 to D.

_________________
Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Henry, it's a bit challenging at first, because you haven't trained yourself to hold it against the half-stop, but the sour interval reminds you tout suite. I'm down to where it stays there most of the time. I've stopped having to think about it.
I only got the idea of swapping the 2nd string (to you, it'd be my first or 4th, probably 1st) lower with P5 as I was typing earlier, but I shall do that shortly. I HATE knee lever conflicts.
It's like trying to manage IRQs on a Win 3.1 machine with too many things in it.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

John Alexander · Posted 5 Dec 2012 1:19 pm

The E/F lever goes on the right knee, and the right foot on the volume pedal acts as an anchor for the lateral force required to hold the lever on the half stop. It doesn't interfere with the use of the volume pedal.

I'm on my second guitar with this configuration. As described in previous posts, I first put it on my MSA Classic in 1978 because I didn't have any other good way to add the "F" lever to the Bb6 tuning. Thanks to Charlie McVay Jr. for encouraging me to give my idea a try.

Not only does it free up a knee lever, it gives a whole step bend that is quite useful with or without the A pedal down.

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