The Steel Guitar Forum

I have just recently taken up this awesome instrument after playin guitar for 25 years. I bought an sx lap steel just to start with but I notice that when I try to do string pulls on it and bring the string back to it's normal position it is out of tune. Could this be the tuners slipping since it's a cheaper guitar or the lack of a roller bridge? It has a wrap around bridge on it which I understand is overkill and was wondering if the string was getting caught so to speak.

Could be; it's hard to know exactly without seeing your guitar.

Years ago, steeler Ralph Kolsiana showed me how to stretch strings to stay in tune. He's grab a string and pull it up away from the fretboard harder and farther than you might imagine you could. He did that to all 6 strings on my Gibson EH-150, retuned it, and my strings stayed rock-solidly in tune for months, string pulls and all.

Hey Clayton , I sometimes used to get this with my lap-steel which has a B-Bender knee lever in it and I also do lots of behind the bar pulls to get the pedal-steel sound. I've found if when stringing the lap-steel if I didn't have it go around the tuning pegs at least 3 or 4 times then after 1 pull during a song it would go way out of tune. so lesson learned and now I always make sure that the strings wrap around the pegs at least 3-4 times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8LP_RwJIJQ

here's a vid of the lap-steel with bender

Thanks for the suggestions. I will definatley make certain I wind the strings around the pegs well and get them nice and stretched out.

More than likely it's "hysteresis". That is when you pull a string tighter, that bit resting on the nut moves toward the bridge. Due to friction at the nut, this point of the string can get stuck. When released the portion behind the nut to the keys remains at the higher tension. The portion on the bridge side of the nut returns to a lower tension (flat). The two tensions are the average of what it was before you pulled it. That's why the important portion of the string is out of tune.
Solution used on PSG - roller nuts!
Alternately, you might try a lubricant at the nut, graphite nut, or refile the nut slot so it is v shaped. A half round slot will have more friction.

Try this test. Pull the string. Return it. Measure the pitch with the tuner to confirm it went flat.
Now grab the string just behind and in front of the nut and pick it up slightly then put it back down - Measure its' pitch. If it's correct voila! - hysteresis.

This is something I’ve been doing for years on guitar, and now on steel, that works very, very well. Go to Stewmac and get something called "Guitar Grease". It’s only about $6 and I’ve had the same one for years.

When you string your guitar, take the end piece of each string that you snip off and put some of the guitar grease on it. I usually just dig it into the container. Slide that piece back and forth in the corresponding bridge and nut slots to lubricate and “burnish” out any snags or debris. This simple procedure when I restring has been more effective at solving tuning that anything I’ve tried including locking tuners and graphite nuts. It also reduces string breakage substantially.

I've had good luck with this hillbilly technique. After you restring and retune, lift each string approx 1" straight up at the 12th fret and wiggle it a little bit. Just takes out the slack in the tuners & such. Works for lap steel, Dobro, flattop, & b-bender Tele.

I can't understand why your lap steel would go out of tune after only a few string pulls. I pull the strings on my Guya D8 and Remington D10 all the time. The only time that I have tuning problems is when were playing on out doors set where the temperatures affected all of the strings.

Mike Neer would be the man to get in touch with about a steel going out of tune because of string pulling.

By the way; I never pull up on my strings , I use a sewing thimble and pull the strings towards the lower stings.

It's basically the same problem as Strat-itis... once you've cured slipping at the peg, you still have binding at the nut to contend with. Graphite is the one that seems to be best... #2 pencil lead in the nut slot may help. If you have a 'break' in the string after the nut (a la Gibson-style) then you may not be able to cure it... roller nuts were invented for just this reason. Not too few turns on the peg, not too many... stretch the strings (somewhat)... lube the nut... cross your fingers, knock on wood, etc.

After you pull it flat, press on the string above the nut... does it go back in tune (or sharp)? Binding at the nut.

Friction is your enemy, but not when it comes to fixing a string in its post.

Years ago I wrote an article in Steel Guitar World Magazine on locking the string in its post rock solid.

If there is any interest I dig this out and post it.

-helmut