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Topic: cabinet drop question |
Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 10:18 am |
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Is it common for the A pedal to cause the 6th string G# to go a little flat ?
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 10:55 am
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okay thanks, just curious then, why is it also common to tune the ope G# string a few cents flat (sweetened peterson-newman tuning). i would think the preset would tune it a little sharp like the E's to deal with the cabinet drop ??
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 11:22 am
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I've never considered tuning to compensate for the "cabinet drop". I use a modified Newman tuning system (and the G# opens are tuned per the Newman chart). Other than seeing the detuning on a tuner I never hear it.
There was a recent thread about the detuning and most are in agreement. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 12:02 pm
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The pure harmony for a major third interval is 386 cents. That's why we tune the G# flat of the meter reading of the E strings. Perfect tuning would be -14 cents, but a more practical value is -10 cents (below the E string's tuning).
The C# note is tuned to be a perfect fourth interval, 498 cents, above the G# with the pedal down. Even though the G# string drops a bit, it is in tune with the C#. And if you didn't tune the G# a full -14 cents from the E, it will still be in tune with the E.
I think that the most in tune sound will come from tuning the G# strings with the A pedal engaged, to account for the cabinet drop. The slight raise when you release the pedal won't sound out of tune as it's only one or two beats per second. It's still way better than equal temperament,
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 12:38 pm
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Karen - As you have most likely noticed, that 6th string G# drops in pitch, while the 3rd string G# may or may not drop as much. That can cause some "issues" when playing up in the higher frets, when using the "A pedal". If the 5th and 6th strings are in tune with each other, you may have to slant the bar just a hair to make the 3rd and 5th stings be in tune with each other. To my ears, it is most noticeable up above the 12th fret.
Lee |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 3:22 pm
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thank you for the replies. Is the sweetened peterson setting the same as the newman chart ? i can really hear the G# flattening when I have the A pedal engaged and it makes the AF shape chord sound a bit out of tune.
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 4:35 pm
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Karen, consider putting a compensator rod on the F lever cross shaft. The rod would run from this cross shaft to the 6th string raise arm and would be tuned to raise the 6th string just a hair when the F lever is activated.
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BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 4:41 pm
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| Karen Sarkisian wrote: |
| thank you for the replies. Is the sweetened peterson setting the same as the newman chart ? i can really hear the G# flattening when I have the A pedal engaged and it makes the AF shape chord sound a bit out of tune. |
Keep in mind that even if there was zero cabinet drop on your guitar, if you are using a sweetened tuning or Newman chart, the AF position comes up quite flat. You'll want to remember to push your bar slightly sharp of the fret to get it in tune using your ear. It's a very common problem -- and solution. And, yes, having a bit of detuning on your 6th string makes it even more crucial that you fudge the bar a lilttle bit to the right of the fret marker. As noted by others, you might also have to do a very slight bar slant to get the notes in tune.
Last edited by Tucker Jackson on 29 Sep 2012 4:46 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Karen Sarkisian
From:
Boston, MA, USA
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Posted 29 Sep 2012 4:44 pm
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makes sense. thanks everyone. its one crazy instrument thats for sure....
I love it though 
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Emmons, Franklin, Mullen |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 30 Sep 2012 2:30 am
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| A comment I one heard about Pedal Steel Guitars sums it up. "Everything is a compromise". |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 30 Sep 2012 2:40 am
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Try using a wound sixth string.
Adjustment will be needed to allow for the extra travel that a wound string has, but the pay-off is much reduced string susceptibility to cabinet drop. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2012 4:46 am
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If you play 6 string electric guitar of fiddle you have a lot of the same issues. Some chords play in tune and some don't. What fret you're at, the inversion, how much neck pressure you play with versus the neck pressure you tune at, how hard you press the stings, how much you bend the strings sideways, if you bend them there's hysteresis and they return flat, and lot's more. It's an art to play most any instrument in tune. The better your ear becomes, the more you will hear these out of tune situations and try to correct them. It's even worse when you're recording and trying to get a rhythm guitar bass, steel and lead guitar in tune!!!!!
Greg |
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Tony Williamson
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2012 5:36 am
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i love my martin hd 28v. sounds great, has a neck like a telecaster, high saddle. and is sharp as hell on the 4th string 4th fret. its terrible. prob why the guy traded it b4 i got it. but to fix it, really fix it, i need to recut the saddle angle. i might be able to compensate the saddle a little. but its the best playing martin ive ever had. and its only on this fret and string. so i live with it.
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stelling banjos . shobud ldg and superpro/ martin hd28v weber mandolin, session 400, danelectro delay, korg d3200, bose L1 x2 |
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Michael Hummel
From:
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Oct 2012 6:35 pm
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(newbie here) At the advice of Al Brisco, I switched to a wound 6th string on my Sho-Bud and it made a world of difference. The all-around tuning is improved.
I didn't have a problem with cabinet drop (this old Sho-Bud is built like a tank) but rather different rates of pull between the 3rd and 6th string on the B pedal.
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MSA Classic 5+4
Too many 6-strings and amps to list |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Oct 2012 2:20 am
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| Using a wound 6th string is OK, unless you are also lowering it a full tone and then it can be an issue. |
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