The Steel Guitar Forum

Pardon my ignorance, but how do you get a 7th chord in C6th lap?

The most important part of a dominant 7th chord is the 3rd and the 7th. That is a tritone interval. You will need to do a slant to get those notes. The tritone can be found with simple slant on your C and G strings and the A and E strings.

So to get a D7, the bar hits the high E at the second fret and A at the first fret?

Perhaps these will be helpful .....

http://www.steel-guitar-mojo.com/C7-lesson.html

http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/chordlocator/generic.php

Jerry Byrd's book (sold by Scotty's Music) includes extensive diagrams of chord inversions. Also - do a forum search - this is a common question. There are a number of ways to get dominant 7th and 9th chord inversions in C6th. On 6th string, on simple way is to tune your 6th string to C#. That way, your four botom strings form an A7th chord.

Darryl Hattenhauer wrote:So to get a D7, the bar hits the high E at the second fret and A at the first fret?

I'm guessing you already have the open C7 down... just tip the bar on the 3rd string 1st fret and strum all six. F# and Bb are not part of the chord, not sure what you're referring to above.

For D7, luckily, on CEGACE C6, it's easy... just leave the high C string open and bar the D chord at the second fret (don't play the 1 or 3 strings), then you get the full 7chord.

For anywhere else, you can do an easy slant with the root on the 6th (low) string and the 7th one fret up on the 3rd string... you're basically sharping the 6. The rest of the strings will sound out of tune, so avoid them.

Melodically, you can use the other chord tones (except the 6th, of course) against this 7... again, choose the tone and slant up for the 7. Try the 3/7 (strings 5 and 3) and 5/7 (strings 2 and 3)... the slants get more 'slanty', of course (the bar angle gets larger). Notice how the 5/7 slant sounds... now just play one string up, two frets down, with no slant... same tones! This is one way to transition from a 6 chord to a dom7 chord melodically, like when you're implying going up to the IV chord during the song (D7 up to G, for instance)... you hear this all the time, fretting or sliding the 2/3 string pair down two frets.

Or if you *really* want to get cool, pull the third string up one fret behind the bar... you can strum all 6... don't hurt yourself!

When I'm playing with a band, I sometimes use an incomplete 7th chord (without the third). I do it by moving up the bar of three frets and plucking the strings 3,4 and 5.

In the case of C, let's say your at fret 12, you move up to fret 15 and it give G-Bb-C. I use it mostly for transitions so I guess it doesn't really answer your question

Doh! Now I get it. Thanks, guys.

I would advise you use WORD or Open Office or something to print out a few "tables" with 13, 14 cells horizontally and maybe 8 vertically - you want a few extra for note names, frets etc. Then just write in all the diatonic "C" notes, ABCDEFG etc. Then you can just circle the slants. Might as well print off a pile of them, you can do a full neck with all the notes, and use it to plot some oddballs like the split slants (with notes on adjacent strings at the same fret on the ball nose); and the ones that have a note on, say, the 5th fret of the fifth string, the 4th fret of the third string, and the 3rd fret of the first string. Whazzat?

I'm saving this thread.

I use this which I lifted from the Cindy Cashdollar DVD booklet..
I printed off an A4 size version and laminated it. Using multi coloured write on wipe off markers you can highlight scales, chords etc. Also, using the “Edit” facility in windows picture viewer you can erase the notes to make a blank neck you can fill in yourself or even two strings to make a six string version.

It works for me.
Steve

Thanks, Steven. I just downloaded it and will frame it and put it on my wall.

Did they ever fix the 4,000 pot-holes in Blackburn Lancashire? And do you get asked that a lot?

No

and no!

It is my belief, actually backed by evidence (for once!), that writing out your own chord charts and scale maps imprints the knowledge more thoroughly. It has to do with running the information through as many different mental channels as you can - throw it against ALL the walls in the hope that more of it sticks.

I believe you are right, David. Also reciting it aloud, and playing back recordings of yourself playing it. And it's better to do a little every day than a lot once a week.

Dominant chords are way too important to me, so I have to use either C6/A7 or C13 rather than C6. You lose some things, but like I said, dominant chords are the most important chords for me and I can't be fudging for them when I need them.

So with a 7-string lap, you could tune the top or bottom string to A# and get a 7th that way?

Yes, you could tune your 7th string to Bb and have a C13 tuning. It's a great tuning.

I am intrigued by the idea of the C13 to get 7th chords. OK...for my 8 string high C6 tuning you would have an A sitting on the bottom, which you could tune up to the 7th (Bb). Alternatively Josh Cho would replace with a smaller gauge string and tune to an octave higher. Does anyone have an opinion on which would be preferable.

Also could anyone share a few examples or licks as to how these newly discovered 7th chords could be put to use in a tune. What grips...or inversions work well?

I agree the best way is to do it yourself.

Just find Bb, E, C and Bb, E, A for the 7th and 13th respectively.

Then start to learn about Jazz voicings.

3 rd and 7ths then other notes higher.

Try an E13 as it lays out like a guitar. Example 8th fret is C or 1st fret is F also has a 9th in the tuning. M9 and m9 and 9th.

I always go here to find lapsteel chords
http://www.hawaiiansteel.com/chordlocator/generic.php

And if the music allows, you can also bend the 6th degree behind the bar up to the b7.

OK

So if you want the E13th in C Although I personally believe E13th makes an easier layout as it lines up with Guitar and fret markers hence my love for it

C13

1. C
2. A
3. G
4. E
5. D
6. C
7. Bb
8. G

These are strings 2 - 9 of my tuning but instead of E13 it is C13th.

The 5th on the bottom and 9th are important for additional split slant chords.

Tons of chords but some examples are since you are interested in 7ths( dominant sounds)

Ready. Here we Go.

Bb-E-C
Bb-E-G = C7
G-Bb - E = C7 also a diminished 7th
Reverse split slant from the Bb and play - Bb - C# - G Which is Gb7b9 but also a Diminished triad and repeats itself every 3 frets

Bb -E - A = C13


Keep your bar on the low G and reverse slant and play G - B - F = G7
Keep your bar on E and forward slant and play F-B-E = G13
Bb-D-A up 2 frets is CM7 (C-E, B)
Above that you have the D now adding to M9

Reverse split slant from, the C and play C-Eb-Bb you have Cm7
Reverse slant from the C you have C- Eb- G = Cm

Reverse slant from the D and play D-F#-A# = D augmented so down 2 frets and now its C -E- G# (C Augmented).That repeats every 4 frets

I'll post some videos but this is just the drop in the ocean. You have 9ths in there and #11 and tons more all the country Sus2, sus 4 and majors plus the jazz 7sus4 (which they just say sus they never use sus 2 LOL.) But if they do you have a 7sus2 as well.

More strings means less movement and tons more voicings. But hope this helps.

Try it in E13 and see if you not only capture the pedal sounds but it aligns with fret markers and guitar knowledge a lot more.

E13th Equivalent

1. E
2. C#
3. B
4. G#
5. F#
6. E
7. D
8. B

So 8th fret is your C

Like guitar fret 1 = F, 3= G, 5 = A blah blah blah and so on.

David Slama wrote:I am intrigued by the idea of the C13 to get 7th chords. OK...for my 8 string high C6 tuning you would have an A sitting on the bottom, which you could tune up to the 7th (Bb). Alternatively Josh Cho would replace with a smaller gauge string and tune to an octave higher. Does anyone have an opinion on which would be preferable.

Also could anyone share a few examples or licks as to how these newly discovered 7th chords could be put to use in a tune. What grips...or inversions work well?

David has resurrected this old thread from long ago on how to obtain 7th Chords from a C6th tuning, Stefan has made his suggestions regarding extra strings and an entirely different tuning which he likes to use on Jazz, which might not suit everyone. As far as I can see there are two main methods of playing Steel Guitar, some play every note in the Melody as a complete 3 string Chord, think of the backing on the 2 Hanks Recordings, their guitars were tuned specifically for that type of playing, but they had another neck tuned for playing Melody.

I have attached here a Video of me playing Melody in C6th where everything I play is Not a 3 string Chord, you will hear & see me play several types of Chord including a 7th, tell me if you think there is anything missing, its a slow tune with long duration notes so you can follow me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTmg9o1UXOo

James.

Hey James

Nice tone.

My suggestions and tuning can be used for any genre music - jazz is just an example as I am yet to find a more complex musical approach that displays it with a nice groove.

But anyway yes you can play rock, jazz, blues , country etc. Hawaiian it doesn't matter.

The tuning is one part of the equation as it offers variety of chords and voicings
The theory is another as the more you know the more you can play
The practice is another part - more of your time you practice ... you get it.

So I think if you have a tuning that is flexible you should be able to play any genre or song once you practice. With minimal sacrifices.

Jazz I think teaches you the essential chord tones to the listener.