The Steel Guitar Forum

Sorry for the newbie question...I've seen some people list their guitars as, for example, 8P 9K.

For the life of me I can't imagine how someone can use their knee to reach TWO sets of left/right levers. Or do you fold one set away when wanting to play certain chords/patterns?

The 2 on the right knee just stay put where they are and usually activate changes on both necks. Then I have 2 sets of left knee levers. 1 for E9 that has 2 left moving levers, 1 vertical lever and 1 moving to the right. The 2nd set for C6 is in the middle of the guitar. I just have to lower my knee below the bottom of the levers and slide it over between the set for the C6.

I have seven on my Kline Universal 12. No problem at all.

Michael, most common is the arrangement mentioned where there is a second set of left knee levers (may be just one, or more) more toward the center of the guitar that only operates the rear (usually C6) neck.
There are also many who use extra knee levers, usually on the left leg, that are staggered, so that moving the knee or leg slightly forward (toward the front apron) puts the front of the knee in between two levers that are slightly closer together, and moving the leg slightly rearward allows you to engage two levers that are slightly further apart. This works because of the taper on the upper leg toward the front of the knee. Less common is a setup including two different vertical levers requiring the left leg moved slightly right or left, then up. I have seen a very few guitars with a forward-moving lever, again on the left leg. The staggered knee levers are a very personalized set-up because of the physical differences between players.
Jimmy Crawford was well known for his setup of the "Crawford cluster" of 9 or more levers... and often on Emmons push-pull guitars. I can only imagine the mechanical gymnastics that took sometimes!

I'll add that I'm one of those who think you can access an incredible amount of music with just 3 pedals and three or four levers.

Kline;



Shobud;

Wow, I'm having enough trouble remembering which knee lowers the Es and which knee raises the Es (and where was that 7th string raise again???)

Thanks for the info and pictures guys. I think I'll stick with my 8P 4K for now!

As I tell students, you will naturally learn where your changes are in time and not have to think about where they are. I never think (OK, be nice now) about where certain changes are. It is automatic, and you will get there too. Whether you have 2 knee levers or 20, it will happen. I never think "well, I want to raise string one a whole step, so I need to move my left knee about one inch back and hit my 2nd left knee left lever". It just happens. Here is a pic of my E9 knee levers.



OOPS!!! Wrong pic. But you gotta admit, those are probably some very nice knees.

From a Williams I used to have, but my Carter is set up the same.

I've got several 12 string guitars. My Fessenden SD-12 Universal is the most loaded at 8 + 8. The couples are staggered, front-back and offset a little, left right. Working them involves a little bit of scootching in your seat--a small butt adjustment as you shift in/out. Setting up a guitar for optimum ergonomics is tough. I am short legged and positioning the front levers so you do not move the rear ones when activating them can be a bit of a task. In addition, adding levers yourself (as I have done) entails keeping in mind that they still need to be able to fold up to close the case. That was a harsh lesson.

Richard, in your first picture the legs on your steel are so long I can't see the knees. Funny, my steel looks just like Charlize Theron and has long legs too.

Yeah Fred. That's one of them foreign made jobbies. It's the Heidi Klum model. Only a single neck, but I bet it plays good and gets some really sweet sounds going.

MAH EYES MAH EYES!!!!!!!

Michael Hummel wrote:Sorry for the newbie question...I've seen some people list their guitars as, for example, 8P 9K.

For the life of me I can't imagine how someone can use their knee to reach TWO sets of left/right levers. Or do you fold one set away when wanting to play certain chords/patterns?

No, seriously! As a relative beginner to pedal steel myself, I know 'exactly' where you're coming from! I've got nine (9) pedals and five (5) knees on my current steel, and I'm in, way over my head. Yet I'll see these monstrosities out there with 8, 9, 10 different knees and I think . . . huh?!@#$%&? Must be someone with four legs and four knees.

Here is an archived thread discussing the "Crawford cluster" with pics of how to hit 'em.
Obviously you can't hit opposing levers
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/005371.html

When people ask me how I can play that many knee levers, I tell them I use my left knee, my right knee, and my wee knee.

Did you never hear of the Dick pedal ?

If I had a Heidi Klum Model, I would only need two knees, and I would work them to death.