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Topic: Positioning dual speaker cabs |
John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2012 10:32 pm |
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Gerry Walker sets his dual 15-inch speaker cabs on top of his psg case, I think standing up, its handle up. Though he says his cabs have never fallen off, with latches and the handle that seems pretty rickety for my tastes.
So I thought if I lay the case down with lid up, and had very short, height adjustable mini-poles inside the each corner (closest to me) of the case, holding the lid up, then set cabs on top of the lid, that would angle the cabs at any angle I want, as long as the poles are infinitely adjustable. Also gets them off the floor.
I haven't had a chance yet to prowl a hardware store looking for such a gizmo, but anyone know a device like that which could work? Or a better idea?
I might need to add a wooden brace on the back side of the lid to keep the cabs from sliding off the rear of the case. That's easy, just a 2x2 with dowels into holes on the case lid, viola, stability.
Thanks for your creative ideas!
I tell you, you switch from a combo amp to components, all hell breaks loose!
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E9 INSTRUCTION
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 7:25 am
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I am curious why you want the speakers at an angle and why you want them off the floor, unless it is just to get them nearer to your ears. Unless you are on a really big stage where the PA carries your sound to the audience both such techniques have negative impact on how well the audience hears your steel.
Have you considered stacking the two speakers one on top of the other? this would get at least one of them to your ear height while providing optimum horizontal coverage (think "line array") from your amp to the audience. |
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Mark van Allen
From:
Watkinsville, Ga. USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 8:35 am
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The Marrs cabs I use with my Stereo steel have a slant built into them that works just right for me onstage, but I don't like to have the cones pointed directly at my ears. They look like the same design Walker uses.
I would think setting cabs on a hollow case would couple some odd vibrations and/or damping to the cabinets. I definitely notice a difference on carpeted versus wooden stages. Sometimes at a smaller venue I'll have one cab off the side of the stage on a drum case or similar, and I can usually hear the difference in resonance.
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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
www.musicfarmstudio.com |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2012 10:08 am
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I've always had my Webb amp on a really nice On-Stage RS7705 stand which:
• gets it off the floor (does that cut down on bass response?)
• points it at me for perfect tone
• generally keeps direct sound from slamming dancers, audience, bartenders, club owners
I was planning to get a second stand just like it, but it's more expense, more weight, the things fold up a bit but is still large and gangly, a pair of them is only worse.
Mark, you may be right about resonant frequencies if cabs sit on my empty steel case. Hmmm... I'll try just setting them on the case with no up-tilt, see if there's any degradation of tone compared to on the floor or on my stand. If I can prop up the case so it's open a bit, I should get the angle I want, and an open case would be no different than a metal stand as far as resonant freqs, wouldn't you think?
The adjustable angle feature lets me finely adjust my hearing the amp, whether it's just a couple of feet, or 15 feet, behind me.
UPDATE
I wound up buying a second amp stand like the one above, and just live with the bulk of two of these, they position they cabinets perfectly. The bottom of the "L" folds up so it's more compact than the Peavey stands Erv Niehaus recommended.
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Last edited by John McClung on 2 Oct 2012 3:33 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 8:04 am
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Peavey makes a nice amp stand.
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Bill Moore
From:
Manchester, Michigan
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 11:03 am
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| If I use 2 amps or 2 speakers, I usually put a small block of wood, just a few inches cut from a 2x4, under the front edge. That seems to be enough of a tilt for me. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 11:07 am
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| Quote: |
...a really nice On-Stage RS7705 stand which:
• gets it off the floor (does that cut down on bass response?) |
Yes, it's about radiating surface - when you take a speaker cabinet off of the floor much of the low frequency energy which was radiated off the floor will simply wrap around behind the amp and get lost. This is why a monitor wedge on a chair is not as efficient as one sitting on the floor, even if the highs MAY seem louder because it is closer to your ears, the loss of contiguous radiating surface causes a loss of mids and lows in the process.... |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 12:17 pm
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Good info, Dave Grafe, thanks! I'll do some tests to see if my ears confirm that. I've never liked amps on the floor because from where I sit the highs get very lost. Amp or speaker on floor, tilted back to point at you, is ideal, yes?
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 12:41 pm Positioning dual speaker cabs
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Hi John,
I recently bought a pair of Telonics cabinets to go with my Telonics rack. I installed a recessed spring-loaded handle in the bottom of each of them before I loaded the speakers. I had a similar arrangement with the Evans cabinets I was using previously and really liked how they could be used to tilt the cabinets if I wanted to do that. I chose the resessed design, so I could still stack the cabinets should the need arise.
These are great cabinets by the way! Dave Beaty and his crew at Telonics really know how to build top-notch products!
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Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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Mike Schwartzman
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 1:22 pm
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| Quote: |
| Good info, Dave Grafe, thanks! I'll do some tests to see if my ears confirm that. |
Yes indeed John...check it out. I've taken notice of this aspect in the the last couple of months. Our current rehearsal space has a concrete floor with a thin covering of indoor outdoor carpet. I was using the tilt back feature of my Evans amp (12" speaker) and decided to try it flat on the floor because I was wondering why my low end went bye bye. Big difference.
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Emmons Push Pull, BMI, Session 400, Home of the Slimcaster Tele. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 2:45 pm
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Good info, Dave Grafe, thanks! I'll do some tests to see if my ears confirm that. I've never liked amps on the floor because from where I sit the highs get very lost. Amp or speaker on floor, tilted back to point at you, is ideal, yes?
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 8:39 pm
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| Quote: |
| do some tests to see if my ears confirm that. I've never liked amps on the floor because from where I sit the highs get very lost |
That's why I like to stack two speakers vertically, the player can hear the highs from the upper speaker and the audience gets the best possible coverage and full range tone. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2012 10:01 pm
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Found some info, this "better sound with amp on the floor" is called "bass coupling.
Here's a possible solution leaving amp on the floor but adjustably tilted up:
http://standback.net/
On the site there's a testimonial from steeler Tommy Butler.
Anyone else tried these?
_________________
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▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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George Seymour
From:
Notown, Vermont, USA
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Posted 1 May 2012 2:20 am
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| John McClung wrote: |
Found some info, this "better sound with amp on the floor" is called "bass coupling.
Here's a possible solution leaving amp on the floor but adjustably tilted up:
http://standback.net/
On the site there's a testimonial from steeler Tommy Butler.
Anyone else tried these? |
I've used these for a couple of years, light and once you get the hang of setting them up they work fine, a little pricey but I couldn't make'em for that, about fourty bucks I think.
_________________
Old Emmons D-10's & Wrap Resound 65, Standel amps!
Old Gibson Mastertones |
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Murnel Babineaux
From:
Mermentau, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 6 May 2012 9:55 pm
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Be careful using the standback with tube amps....
If your power tubes are not positioned to be tilted, you could experience screen grid shorts.
Fender amps with the tilt back legs positioned the power tubes correctly..Other amps, I don't know about.
Be careful...I've seen this happen many times.
Murnel
_________________
Rittenberry D10 E9/C6 Session 400 |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 7 May 2012 12:06 am
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To George:
I tried one of the Standbacks at Sam Ash with a cabinet, but the dang things were just too fiddly so I passed. My cabs are barely bigger than the 15-inch Weber neo's inside, and never seemed to fit well or be as stable as I'd want.
I also A/B'd my cabs on and off the floor, and much prefer the cleaner sound up on a stand. So I'll stick with the dual On-Stage hands, until something better comes along.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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bill dearmore
From:
Belton,Tx.,USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2012 4:41 pm
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Hi John, before you get sold on one idea try one in front and one in back....I have closed back cabs and sometimes put both in front so they will put more steel in the mains... See ya buddy,...Bill |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 18 Sep 2012 5:45 pm
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I put a tilt back leg (like a twin) on my Walker cabs. Up side you hear the speakers better,downside you sound out front may not be as clean as you would like it.
Up side you get out of the way of the guitar player so he can hear himself better and not you, the down side his amp is smoking while your amp is buried behind you on the floor.
don't you just love the hunt???
Larry Behm
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'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Stereo Steel amp, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 19 Sep 2012 3:40 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| ...Unless you are on a really big stage where the PA carries your sound to the audience both such techniques have negative impact on how well the audience hears your steel.... |
I dont think a mic placed very close to the speaker on an amp (normal PA technique) is going to pick up much additional bass resonance from the floor very much, versus being on a stand, though it may sound very different on stage and from the audience close up. The bass resonance from the floor is felt at a bit of a distance away.
I dont usually run stereo or two cab, but have some of my amp signal added in my vocal monitor (on the floor) in front if possible. Just an alternative to David's suggestion of having another speaker at a higher (ear level) position on top.
With a two cab rig, you could try mic'ing one behind you on the floor at a distance and have the second in front or side tilted up on the floor or on a stand as a monitor?
Clete |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 19 Sep 2012 5:24 am
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I have plans drawn for a pair of monitor style kick back cabinets in the works. 2 12's or perhaps a 12 and a 15. I want one on the floor behind me and one on the outside of me pointed toward my ear and the band.
I know Peavey had the wedge and a few builders have done this. It's my project in the works, behind a couple of commissioned things, unless someone can show good reason why it might not be a good idea. |
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Micky Byrne
From:
United Kingdom (deceased)
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Posted 19 Sep 2012 6:10 am
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Erv...I managed to get a couple of "Tiger Stands" from Amazon.co.uk ... Identical to the Peavey ones in your picture, but probably a fraction of the price. They have the benefit of having 2 strong metal "Pins" as an extra precaution to go through the holes on the height plates.
Micky Byrne |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2012 7:13 am
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Micky,
Sounds good!  |
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Bill Bassett
From:
Papamoa New Zealand
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Posted 19 Sep 2012 7:34 am
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| I really do like the tilt back amp stands like the peavey one shown and other brands but...you can't move them around. If you need to move on or off stage quickly or even adjust your position in relation to the drummer or bass player, it's a hassle to lift, move and reset. As it is, I usually find myself in a hurry so the amps just sit on the floor. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2012 7:39 am
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| Fender had a pretty good idea with the tilt back legs but once you put casters on those heavy suckers, you screw up that system. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 19 Sep 2012 7:51 am
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| You can always pull tha back two casters for a bit of a tilt. |
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