The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi everyone. I have been playing the terrific tabs done in Doug Beaumier's "25 more c6th songs book". Re: playing Apache for example where triplets of notes are played open, on the 1st, 2nd and 5th frets single strings I have been playing those by alternating the thumb and 1st finger especially on the 5th and 6th strings(low strings). How should it be done? How about on the 1st or 2nd string? Would this be a job for one of those kelly speed picks perhaps?
Thanks for any help you can offer me.
Dick

Dick, thanks for mentioning my song book. I'm glad you like it! As far as the rapid notes on a single string in "Apache"... you may notice at the top of the page it says "A flatpick works best for this song". That would be a regular guitar pick... the fast "back and forth" of a flatpick. Using fingerpicks and alternating thumb and finger on the same string also works, but it's harder to do IMO. Thanks again.

For some unknown reason, thumb, middle, thumb, works better for me.

Oh I didn't see that. Well I have been working on it and the thumb index thumb seems to be working for me okay. I'd be all fumbly trying to use a flatpick there wilst still playing the rest of the song with my finger and thumb picks.

I really have wondered though if those Kelly speed thumb picks would work for rapid back and forth picking. Has anyone tried that?

And oh yeh, Doug I hope you will be able to put together more of these books. They make me sound better than I am while I work out a ton of rust and they are just flat out good.

I started playing in 1946 off and on and one thing has always baffled me over the years. How in the world do you fellas manage to commit thousands of songs to memory. I can't seem to ever remember a whole song. Or is it more of knowing the chords of the song that lets one shake out the melodies and maybe other than playing the songs hundreds of times is the song played the same each time one plays it?

I suppose playing with other musicians has to be a big factor and just playing the songs a kazillion times too. Anyway I admire everyones ability to play song after song and never any music in front of them. I suspect the Nashville number system comes into play here too?

Am I posting in the correct forum spot with this stuff bOb?

Thanks for the kind replies
Dick

John I can see where using thumb 2nd finger thumb would probably work better, less chance of clasing going on than with thumb and index finger.

I'll work on that too.
Dick

I have found the most effective way of playing fast triplet tremolo on one string is to pick in this order: thumb, middle, index.

I'd be all fumbly trying to use a flatpick there wilst still playing the rest of the song with my finger and thumb picks.

Me too, so I use a flatpick for the entire song. Normally I use fingerpicks on steel guitar, but the flatpick works better for me on this song, and I'm used to using a pick for regular guitar.
I had considered leaving this tune out of the book because I knew that parts of it would be hard for many players, but a lot of folks requested the song and I really like it...

Boy Doug:
I am so glad you left this one in, that is the number one reason I grabbed this book. when that song first came out, it would send shivers down me and it still does to this day. Hearing Vaughn Monroe do that song left a lasting impression, it still is my most favorite song.
I am happy to say it is coming along very well. I finger pick on my ukes, no picks at all, just fingertips, no fingernails. I didn't notice that either, that this entire song could be played with a flat pick. I am awful with a flat pick.
Again, both your c6th books are wonderful. I have been playing all the songs daily or at least all the songs in one or the other book.
Next I hope to get back on my pedal steel and perhaps your E9th book will work as well with me. I haven't played it for 5 years already.

Back in the early days of taking lessons, when playing triplets we were taught to use just one finger for all three notes.

Hi Billy:

I took Oahu lessons in the mid forties but I really can't remember being taught that way but were you taught to do triplets with one finger doing all down strokes? Or the thumb with all upstrokes? It's pretty difficult to do upstrokes with finger picks of course since they want to fly off your fingers.
How do you do it?
and hey thanks for chiming in.
Dick

Doug:
I bet your eyebrows went up on my last notes. My number one reson for buying the book was for Ghost Riders in the Sky. Apache of course is another huge favorite of mine which also convinced me I need your book. When I first heard Jorgen Ingman play Apache that did it for me. and of course Santo & Johnny's hits. So some same technique seems to be in both songs and my OLD brain went in two different directions.
anyway I do appreciate evryone's input.
Dick

Years ago a guitarist taught me to play that kind of tremelo by turning a flatpick at a right angle to the string and using just the tip. This technique also works with a plastic thumbpick.

I've used Fred Kelly Speed Picks for years for fingerstyle guitar and continue to use them for dobro and lap steel. I use the orange (medium?) picks but I think they have a thinner version (yellow?). When playing dobro I often grab the thumbpick between my thumb and near the knuckle of my first finger and clamp it down to fire off rapid notes (usually on the low 6th string). I've seen Jerry Douglas do something similiar but using a far more bulkier thumb pick. I would assume that with the speed picks you could probably do them on whatever string you wanted - just takes practice to get a good tone.

As a (gasp!) banjo player, I usually play triplets thumb-index-middle if I'm playing all the notes on one string, although I will sometimes use thumb-index-thumb.

Agree with you Peter.
T.I.M. forward banjo roll is working for me.

Love Dougs book as well & waitin' for more!

T-M-I is at least twice as fast and much more comfortable for me. I think it is the standard way in which players like Sol Hoopii did it, as well. Give it a try.

I'll give that a try Mike, if it works out faster I'll be a happy guy. Thanks for your input.

fast triplet on a single string. well i do it two ways. ring middle index. that leaves your thumb free to play something along with it.

if you dont need the thumb to play something along with the triplet, then i like thumb middle index because it leaves the thumb in a good position to hit your next note.

Coming from a guitar background, the only thumbpick I could really get used to was the Herco combo flatpick/thumbpick which is a flatpick with a wrap-around. Real easy to move the index finger over for the extra support during alternate picking.
http://www.elderly.com/accessories/name ... -HE113.htm

I know of a couple of steelers who use a flatpick and finger picks on fingers 3 & 4, which several regular guitar pickers use, too. - Jack

I forgot - Alan Akaka showed me how to do fast triplets T M T. Sometimes he'll pick on open strings and hit a fretted string for the T. - Jack

John Aldrich wrote:I forgot - Alan Akaka showed me how to do fast triplets T M T. Sometimes he'll pick on open strings and hit a fretted string for the T. - Jack

That works fine, but then you have 2 successive thumb strokes and it is not quite as rapid as using 3 fingers. It's great to learn to do it a few different ways--it can come in real handy.

It didn't occur to me until after I'd already said that I used the 3 finger technique , but I did use the T M T technique throughout the recording of 12th Street Rag, difficult as it was. It yielded a very uniform attack, though.

You can hear it beginning at 1:09 and later at about 2:12.

http://soundcloud.com/ionahoopii/12th-s ... -mike-neer

Mike Neer said...."T-M-I is at least twice as fast (as opposed to T-I-M) and much more comfortable for me. I think it is the standard way in which players like Sol Hoopii did it, as well. Give it a try."

OK...I'm feeling like the class dummy here....but can you explain why T-M-I would be faster than T-I-M on one string?

What am I not seeing or realizing? Thanks.

There is no one "right way". It's different for each player depending on his personal technique and whatever he's comfortable with.

I usually alternate thumb-finger-thumb for fast single note licks on one string. Either finger works well for that: T-I-T, or T-M-T. Jeff Newman taught that technique years ago and I worked on it a lot, so it seems natural to me now. I also play T-I-M for some fast licks. I seldom play T-2-1, but I can understand how that might work for some players.

Stephen Abruzzo wrote:Mike Neer said...."T-M-I is at least twice as fast (as opposed to T-I-M) and much more comfortable for me. I think it is the standard way in which players like Sol Hoopii did it, as well. Give it a try."

OK...I'm feeling like the class dummy here....but can you explain why T-M-I would be faster than T-I-M on one string?

What am I not seeing or realizing? Thanks.

i think its because of the T-M as oppose to the T-I. T M is more natural and used a lot! the addition of the I is more natural and comfortable to do the triplet. when you are talking speed, natural/comfortable is everything. the instant you tense up because something is not natural/comfortable its over. natural and comfortable....that could be used in a bra commercial.