Fixing Soft Stop on my Derby LKR - UPDATE

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

My Derby SD-10 lowers the E's on my LKR. I've noticed the stop feels "soft" and when looking underneath the guitar I can see why. The stop is made by the set screw against the wood underside of the guitar. My other stops are metal-to-metal.

You can just see, in the shadow underneath where the red arrow points, where the set screw is starting to "dig in" to the wood, the bare wood is barely visible in the pic.

I like the feel of a firm stop better, and of course this situation will stop at a different point as it wears. How can I best "firm up" this stop? Someone suggested screwing a metal plate onto the wood surface where the set screw contacts it. Seems like a good idea...any others? Thanks for the help and suggestions, guys and gals...

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

That seems like the best thing to do to me.

You said the others have metal to metal stops. What exactly do they have. Pics would help. Seems that this lever should also.
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Derby right acting kl's usually have a horizontal shoulder bolt in the center rail as a stop. Never seen a lever stop like that on one. Is yours a really old one? Your pic looks like a stop to keep the linkage from over-returning and the slop out.

Search out Carl Kilmer's Derby f/s post for some pics of the LKR construction.

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/userpix1205/7739_PICT0169_1.jpg

I don't know what they have done. Mine was 0072 and it had the same type stop as the one in the above photo. One of the reversing linkage pieces hits that shoulder bolt you see there in the center rail. There is no adjustment screw for these, but you can fiddle with the rods and bellcranks for small adjustments.

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

I don't think that is original Derby equipment.
Jerry

richard burton · From: Britain

I glued a coin to my ZB

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

John, I doubt if you are feeling any softness in the lever as a result of softness in the wood. I think you are feeling torque or flexing in the cross shaft. I can't tell how far the stop is from the lever but it needs to be close to the lever. The screw will in time wear out a hole in the wood so you do need a tougher surface for the stop screw but I would try to move the stop close to the lever then put the coin, screw head or whatever you decide to use under it.

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

This is built by Derby this way. I talked to Charly about that back then.... I suggest glueing in a thin metal strip (about 2 ft long under all the stops. I did it this way and the problem was solved.

Johan

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

That screw is not intended to be used as the stop. Like Jerry said, there should be a screw in the center rail right above the reversing lever. That arm in your picture, with the screw, is to adjust the travel of the knee lever. The screw should be located so that, when you activate the lever, it moves away from the body of the guitar, not toward it. It's possible someone removed the original solid stop, then reversed the location of that arm and screw, trying to use it as the stop. Pretty simple to return it back to the original.

Larry Bressington · From: Nebraska

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

John,
I agree with Bill . Not suppose to be a stop.
A stop at the end of your linkage will feel spongy. Everything has a little flex to it, and it all adds up. I like a stop right at the lever or pull rod.
My 2 cents. Ron
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Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

John, Could you post a picture of the whole underside. I do not have anything exactly like that on my Derby SD10 and am curious if there are any other differences.

Here is how I solved that situation for the pedal return stops that also contacted the cabinet:

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

Hi Dick,
yes, that is the solution, I did it the same way!
regards, Johan

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Nice to be handy, right Johan, especially dealing with these things. I've got a few more pics of this on my Skydrive, also a couple other problem solvers, ie. Velcro attached, knee lever flags. https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=594320d13092d8fb

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

Dick, Johan, and all...thanks for the replies, very helpful. I'm planning on doing something similar to what you show, Dick. I'll get some more pics up in a couple days when I return home.

Will Cowell · From: Cambridgeshire, UK

John,

My old Marlen Frankensteel has the same problem, but on *all* the pedal and KL stops. No proper metal-to-metal stops anywhere, all limit screws touching the body underside, and slowly gouging recesses into the wood over the aeons since it was built. Everything feels vague and woolly.

I have thought time and again about putting a continuous strip of metal under those screw ends, like Dick Sexton's guitar. Seems need and takes little room.

Only reason I haven't done it? Too busy playing the Curnow (British!) PSG. I'll get to it when I strip down the all-pull changer I installed 3 years ago, to grease it, and to re-lacquer the cabinet if I'm really short of something to do!
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Will Cowell · From: Cambridgeshire, UK

That should be *neat*
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

Here are some more pics of my undercarriage. You can see the offending stop on my LKR, marked with the red arrow. I'm going to move it about halfway towards the knee lever (LKR is the one with the flag on it), and then going to attach a thin metal strip on the guitar where the stop screw contacts it...I cant get it right up with the knee lever, as the stop only slides and won't come out from under the cross rod.

Also, you can see that I also need that metal strip on the pedal stops that you have, Dick. However, the screws contacting the guitar body are the pedal return travel stops on this guitar, not the engagement stops, is that what you have, Dick?

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

That is correct John, the strip you see in my pic, is the stops for the pedals in the up position, pulled up against that strip by the pedal return springs. Probably a hundred ways to do this fix, but this worked for me. It did require screwing those allen screws almost all the way out to get the strip installed. After that I readjusted the allens as required and locked in place. You will notice that there is only one screw holding the strip in place. That is a neck screw. I removed the original and installed one only slightly longer, maybe an 1/8 inch. Make sure you match the thread type and size to the type and size of the original screw. Don't want to strip or cross thread the screw hole threads in the neck.

If you email me, I have a suggestion for a correction of your other stop problem also. All cowboy logic...

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Bill your right, it looks like the lever was taken off of the center rail and repositioned toward the rear of the cabinet. Player may have been trying to fit it to his short legs and such. I'm about 5 foot and can reach it set up in the original config. John is tall, he should have no trouble at all with the original. Good eye... Now that I look at it, seems others may have been repositioned also. I'd take it back to as close to original as possible. Johns call though...

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

Try to reach Bob Calloway, he used to work with Charly Stepp on the Derby's. There is still a lot of spare-parts on stock....

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Yes, I know that the lever has been repositioned. It was originally mounted on the rail.

That doesn't mean it won't work re-positioned though. It's just a matter of acquiring an aligning parts for a solid stop. MOF, I may have some parts that will work, I'd have to check.

Alternately, the idea of placing some solid metal underneath the existing stop to which John has alluded will probably work just fine, original config or not.

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