The Steel Guitar Forum

It came to visit at my home equipped with the GEORGE L'S Humbucking Pickup. I pounced on it, like a "Duck on a June bug". The pedals were a bit awkward at first, because I normally play the "Day" setup. I couldn't live with the pedals as they were. Drilling new holes and reshaping the right angled cuts became my first attempt to upgrade its value in terms of playability. Another party had modified the knee levers quite satisfactorily, "but no cigar." I proceeded to soften up the spring resistance of the 4 and 8 string lowers, combined with a much shorter swing to the right, (LKR). It features the maple cabinet, with a beautiful Formica finish. I've given it a few good workups, and no string breakages. The sound is par excellence, with great sustainability.

Good luck with it Bill. Sounds like you have a handle on modifying it so it's a better guitar. It's really too bad they make these guitars where you can't change the pedals around.

We all know that famous saying: "Day is the ONLY way".

Richard,

Actually, the "train" is wide open for any pedal arrangement. The all pull spring loaded technique is not difficult in making mechanical changes. The overall lightweight construction could be a boon to nonweight lifters who struggle moving heavier equipment to bandstands. Thanks for your thoughts.

My faith has been restored 100 percent in life's turn of events. To have the opportunity to appreciate music played on an instrument that was originally intended for beginners trying to become steel guitarists, is very gratifying. I'm delighted to announce that I've upgraded other student models by adding knee levers, and beefing up weak points featured in critical areas of a given instrument. The CARTER STARTER by far with its changer system, is one manufactured in the best interest of those initiating the rudiments of the pedal steel guitar.

Thanks Bill. I always thought one of the big gripes about the Starter was the fact that the pedal setup couldn't be changed easily. Guess I was wrong.

I modified a Carter Starter by making the following changes:
I switched the first and third crossrods to convert it to the "Day" setup and rearranged the pull rods.
I switched the left knee levers with the right knee levers. After switching the levers, the LKL was a little hard to reach, so I put a flag on it.
I replaced the original pickup, which was bad, with a George-L's humbucker.
I stretched the lower return springs on 4 and 8 to make the E lowering lever a little softer.
I have played several gigs with this little lightweight jewel, and it sounds good and I've had no problems with it. And, it sure is easy on the old back.

Bob Tuttle,

Thanks for the response, and I welcome your matter-of-factness concerning the advantages of possessing the skills to make necessary changes to "beef up" the CARTER STARTER pedal steel guitar. In response to your comments, I would for my part caution the "spring stretching" method of reducing resistance. In some instances, that method is very useful, but it depends on the individual springs used in the construction of the steel guitar. It's much too easy to assume that all springs are alike in their usefulness. I agree about the tonality expressed. The combination of the instrument's cabinet construction, and equipped with a GEORGE L'S pickup assures the player of an exceptional output of what we expect to hear from a quality steel guitar. Thanks again for alerting me to your successful achievements.

The little CADILLAC of student model steel guitars, better known as "The CARTER STARTER", has found a good home. I enjoy reaching out to the homeless steel guitars that could use a bit of T.L.C... Firm hands, and purposeful additions, can quickly bring to life the same quality intonations heard in expensive ($5,000.00) steel guitars. Most changes that make a world of difference across the board, can fit in the palms of your hands.

Bill
I don’t normally join your posts , but your interest in the nuts & bolts of pedal steel guitar’s is one i can identify with --- I bought a Fender student modal in early 70’s and have enjoyed that guitar for near 40 years -- as it stands now , it a 3 + 5 , with a sho-Bud pro one changer --

I think the PSG machine is as interesting as the music it can produce

Bob Hickish,

I agree that the sky is the limit concerning what can be done in a room filled with cabinet makers, machinists, mechanics, and pedal steel guitarists. If you could ever assemble an assortment of those good fellows in one large room, what a bright day it would be. In other words, the emphasis needs to be placed on a variety of main points, that are only attainable through trial and error. Thanks for pointing out some of the things that are possible, if you follow through with good plans.

Is it possible to play any pedal and knee setup with equal proficiency? Ahem! I don't think so! The two most popular setups are called the EMMONS and DAY arrangements. My own trial and error observations are good enough for me in this matter. I don't believe for one minute that a player can become equally proficient on both systems at ANY given time. The CARTER STARTER in my grasp features the EMMONS layout, while my 35 + years of playing brought me to favor JIMMY DAY'S concept of a better method of producing sounds that people want to hear. As of now, no decisions are definite in making the changes that would rectify any hang-ups associated with minor problems found to be present in a particular tuning. One thing is for sure; I will not tolerate slipups of the pedals to any measurable degree.

You can see and hear Mr. Tuttle playing his modified Carter Starter by going to the WTSGA channel. It sounded very good in person and Mr. Tuttle does know how to make it sing.

Danny,

I've noticed the sustainability in "The CARTER STARTER".. no doubt attributed to its construction combined with The GEORGE L'S pickup. I checked to see where Bob Tuttle has performed. He has a very impressive list of places and performers to his credits. I'd like to hear him play.

Is it possible to play any pedal and knee setup with equal proficiency? Ahem! I don't think so! The two most popular setups are called the EMMONS and DAY arrangements. My own trial and error observations are good enough for me in this matter. I don't believe for one minute that a player can become equally proficient on both systems at ANY given time.

Don't think I can agree. I have never heard him do this, but I hear Johnny Cox can pretty much sit at any guitar and setup and play as if he owned the guitar. I have seen others in person that can switch and be able to do a full gig and sound the same as they always do. I myself can sit in on a friends guitar that is an Emmons setup (I also play Day setup), because his E to F and E to Eb levers are on the same knee as mine (although they move in different directions) and I can make it through a whole 1 hour set, but not as good as with my guitar. If those levers are on the other knee, like another friend of mine's guitars, I can't make it through 1 song. But if I had access to a guitar with an Emmons setup that I could sit down with every day for an hour or so and practice, I am positive I could reach somewhere close to the proficiency I have on my guitar with the Day setup. I honestly don't think one setup is "better" than the other. It's just what works better for you. The pedal setup has no effect on the sounds or licks that you can get out of the guitar. But I think I understand Bill's meaning behind this last line. It's just easier for him (and me too) to play the Day setup over the Emmons.

Bill, are you going to try to modify the Starter to a Day setup?

Richard,

Thanks for carrying the coversation a little beyond ordinary deductions. We would have to hear from JOHNNY COX personally, before concluding that he never trips on a wrong pedal or knee lever. Some folks are more artistic than others, this I know.. you see proof of it in such things as handwriting or sketching out illustrations. JOHNNY COX is exceptional seated at a steel guitar, for sure, but to hear from him on the subject of pedal slipups, isn't likely to happen. If the truth comes out at some point, we'll most likely learn that we all are subject to hitting a sour note at some point in time. Fumbling around with assorted pedal arrangements will hasten such happenings. Yes, I'll
move back to the "DAY" setup, due to my personal playing experiences with both concepts.

Never to be a recipient of extraordinary complimentary commentary on such important issues concerning the pedal steel guitar, unquestionably denotes a serious lack of interest on the part of those who are best qualified to deliver accurate informative solutions to complex topics. My personal determination remains unchanged in matters that are subject to changes, and whenever values digress below reasonable standards of acceptability.

Bill Hankey wrote:Never to be a recipient of extraordinary complimentary commentary on such important issues concerning the pedal steel guitar, unquestionably denotes a serious lack of interest on the part of those who are best qualified to deliver accurate informative solutions to complex topics. My personal determination remains unchanged in matters that are subject to changes, and whenever values digress below reasonable standards of acceptability.

You know, just the other day, I was thinking the same thing...

I went to the WTSGA videos on Youtube and Bob's video isn't labled with his name (or I just couldn't find it) Does anyone have a link to a video of Bob playing the Carter? I would like to hear it.

Here are the links to a couple of songs from the West Texas Steel Guitar Assn. meeting in May. That's my good friend, Bobby Rountree, on the right playing the Carter U12. He's also singing on the second song.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NzogGRVK2o&feature=relmfu

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMO36I8xVbM&feature=relmfu

Great post bill, I had an old Emmon's modded one time, ran a treat...According to Carter, the starter was made to the same specs on the body except for the set-up ala adjustable feet etc, 'Tone' should be just as good!

According to Carter, the starter was made to the same specs on the body except for the set-up ala adjustable feet etc, 'Tone' should be just as good!

Sorry, I think there is a misconception here. As a student model, the Carter 'Starter' is a very different animal than the professional models. The wood appears to be the same type, but the body is narrower than the pro S-10. More importantly, the changer, undercarriage, neck, and pretty much every other part on the Starter is different too. Tone is good, but it's not a fair fight to compare it to the pro model. And why should it compare? New, they ran less than one-third the cost of Carter's pro S-10 model.

The Starter served that entry-level try-it-out-first market well enough, IMHO. Put in the pickup of your choice and it's very useable, especially if you beef up the pedal stops on the left-moving levers.

Thanks gentlemen for the interesting input on the subject of student model steel guitars. It is fun to read accounts of experiences others have had with steel guitars that were affordable when things are a little tight in the budget department.

Bob T., Thank you for the links to the West Texas Show held last April. Nice playing!

Nice job of playing Bob, you and the Carter sound great.

Earl, I had a Stage One for sale at that meeting and Bobby Tuttle had me hold it up so he could examine the running gear on it. I think he likes the challenge of making a little cheap guitar sound like a million bucks. He built a lap steel out of a 2 X 4 and his wife says it sounds good too. I haven't heard it yet but am hoping he'll bring it again and play it for us.

has anyone tried mounting a motorcycle windshield on a carter starter?