The Steel Guitar Forum

My old steel buddy, Danny Dees, had me take a few of my old gig recordings and send them to him on a CD not too long ago. I used two different steels on those recordings; my old 1976 P/P Emmons and my 1990 Mullen (which is now owned by Mickey Adams).

Danny and I have talked several times since he's been listening to that CD and there's two particular songs on there that he swears was my Mullen when it was actually the Emmons, and two other songs that he swears was my Emmons when it was actually my Mullen.

When Danny and I talked on the phone yesterday he still maintained his opinion on which guitar is which and said to me, "Just ask any steel player to listen and they'll tell you the same thing I'm telling you!" LOL So, I told him I would.

I've taken a few seconds sample from each of those four songs and put them on SoundCloud. The links are below:

http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/s ... -last-tear

http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/s ... by-morning

http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/s ... pass-me-by

http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/s ... rt-changes

Anyone care to listen to these and state which two are the 1976 Emmons and which two are the 1990 Mullen?

I'll say which ones are which after a few responses come in. I'd almost bet that everyone guesses them right, but it'll be fun to see which ones people choose as the Emmons or Mullen.

At the risk of being totally wrong, Emmons on tracks 2 & 3 and Mullen on tracks 1 & 4.

BTW; nice playing!!

Tracks 2 and 3 sound like the Emmons

Only one of these emoticons will be here when this thread ends

1&3 Emmons

2 & 4 Emmons

1 & 3 Emmons...

I can't tell the difference.

It's pretty tough alright, but I'll say that #1 is the Emmons, and a toss up between 3 and 4 but I'm going with #3 as Emmons too.

Emmons 1 & 3
Mullen 2 & 4
#3 was by process of elimination

Thanks to everyone who has given their estimation so far. Wow, these are some good guesses and I'm dying to jump on in and reveal which steel was which on those tracks ... but, I'd like to hold out till tomorrow afternoon and see if a few more guesses happen to come in.

I've got some tile & grout work to do on a job tomorrow (Sunday), so I'll hop on here when I get home in the afternoon and reveal which is which.

well Jim you really did ask for other opinions! I'd post my guesses too but you already know which ones I think are the Emmons and based on your post at the top if I put my 2cents in it might give it all away.

while I'm on here can you do me a favor??? if you get a chance can you put some of that ole Whatta Band stuff on sound cloud like A Way to Survive and Faded Love; 'specially that E9 ride you used to do on Nite Life? would love to hear those again and maybe try to get some of your licks too!

Despite less than favourable recording conditions and a cardboard ear w/tinnitus, I will venture a guess:
1&4 - Emmons
2&3 - Mullen
Fun stuff Jim!

No further guesses from anyone, eh? Okay ...

Here is the answer:

Tracks 1 & 2 = 1976 Push/Pull Emmons D-10

Tracks 3 & 4 = 1990 Mullen D-10

I was impressed to see how many guesses targeted track number 3 as being the Emmons. The more I listen to that track (and the whole song) the more Emmons-like it seems to my ears, too, but track 3 was in fact my 1990 Mullen (which, as I'd mentioned before, is now owned by Mickey Adams). I sure do miss that guitar, but I'm glad Mickey has it ... it's in good hands.

If anyone's interested, it was Danny Dees' guess that the Emmons was on tracks 3 & 4 that started my thread here. It's all in the first paragraph.

Thanks to everyone who ventured their guess at which guitar was the "Emmons" or "Mullen".

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BTW, I'm able to be knocked over with a feather right now ... Danny Dees actually signing in and doing a message? Wow! Danny, if you really want to hear some of that old Whatta Band stuff, I'll be glad to upload those songs for you (and that Night Life ride if I can find it).

all i gotta say Jimmy is that Mullen of yours sure sounded like a Emmons guitar to my ears!!!

yeah i'm on here a bit to talk to you. ya know how typing makes my wrists hurt but my phone minutes are out and i can't fill'em up until payday so here i am.

can i ask for one more favor while your uploading songs? my band is going to work up a few and we would like to do the kind of arrangements ya'll did in Ty's band and i'd like to try on some of your licks.

if you have em, can you upload these songs too?
single thing in mind
cadillac style
honky tonk blues
start all over again
nobodys talkin
never alone
oh girl

would sure appreciate it bud! and thanks in advance.

Well I just listened and decided 1&2 was the Mullen and 3&4 was the Emmons !

Danny Dees wrote: ... can i ask for one more favor while your uploading songs? my band is going to work up a few and we would like to do the kind of arrangements ya'll did in Ty's band and i'd like to try on some of your licks.

if you have em, can you upload these songs too?
single thing in mind
cadillac style
honky tonk blues
start all over again
nobodys talkin
never alone
oh girl

would sure appreciate it bud! and thanks in advance.

Wow, Danny, you've got a little list there, don't you, bud? Shall I give you the fillings from my teeth as well? Just kidding, my friend.

Seriously, I'm sure I've got recordings of all of those songs, but I'm not sure if they're really what you'd want.

First of all, they're "first-run" songs, meaning that it was the first time we'd played them on stage. They include the "good and the bad" that comes from playing unrehearsed songs for the first time and aren't polished (Ty always had us learn our parts from tapes and then just play the songs live instead of having a band rehearsal to go over them).

Second, they're not board mixes, but were all recorded on a little portable recorder that I'd put under my pack seat to bring the steel out front so I could critique my playing on the way home from the club (I'd listen to them on my car tape player and my reaction was usually, "Yikes! Boy, do I need to work on that part!").

Third, the steel sounds a bit "over saturated" on a lot of the songs when it comes to my effects. I was running three amps (left stereo, right stereo and a center amp completely dry with no reverb to balance out the sound). In order to please the sound man, I'd often run the center dry amp at a lower volume than the two effects amps which gave him the ability to boost it out front; the end result was that it sounded great out front, but on stage my effects amps were a little strong and that's how the tape picked them up. Again, they weren't recorded for quality sound, but merely to use as a critique tool.

You can hear the band on them, but the steel is way out front and often covers the vocals and, in some cases, the lead player and if there's a harmony going on between the lead and steel, you only hear the steel (like on "Never Alone" ... Darin and I used to twin that part with me on the harmony line and if I recall, the steel just swallows his part on the tape). Like I said, these weren't recorded for "listening pleasure", but merely as a tool for me to immediately hear and identify all the parts I needed to work on, improve on or polish up.

Having heard all of that, are you sure you still want them? If so, I'll dig them out and upload them to that SoundCloud thing for you; but, they're not what you'd call quality recordings.

BTW, I found that Night Life thing you were wanting, so I sampled just the lead ride like you wanted and I'll upload that in a little bit.

I guessed 1 & 3 as Mullen

Jim Lindsey wrote:Third, the steel sounds a bit "over saturated" on a lot of the songs when it comes to my effects. I was running three amps (left stereo, right stereo and a center amp completely dry with no reverb to balance out the sound). In order to please the sound man, I'd often run the center dry amp at a lower volume than the two effects amps which gave him the ability to boost it out front; the end result was that it sounded great out front, but on stage my effects amps were a little strong and that's how the tape picked them up.

I wondered why there was so much echo. That explains it. Thanks, Jim.

I posted a reply a moment ago and when it showed up it had Danny Dees' name as the author! Wow, that was strange. I wonder if it has to do with Danny using my ISP as a secondary user? He and I seem to be logged on at the same time right now. Anyway, here's another go at it ...

A sincere thanks again to everyone who's ventured a guess on this one; this is proving to be a lot of fun and I really appreciate all the responses that have been coming in.

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Hi, Mike! Glad to see you in here, too. You know, those were stock Mullen pickups in that guitar. Whoever had that guitar (between the time I let it go and Mickey's purchase of it) replaced them with BL-705 pickups and it still sounds great, but I really loved those stock Mullen pickups. I've been able to pull a sort of Emmons-like tone from all of my Mullen guitars from time to time, but that 1990 Mullen came the closest to sounding like a push/pull Emmons out of all of them that I've had. And, much as I love Gary Hogue's old 1986 Mullen, my old 1990 Mullen actually played even better than Gary's guitar. I must admit there's a part of me that really misses that guitar in a big way!

Okay, Danny ... I uploaded those old Whatta Band tunes you asked for and sent it to your email, but it came back as undeliverable. This is strange... first, there was that weirdness of your name popping up on my last post a moment ago and now this email thing; I wonder if you being an authorized user under my Internet Service Provider account may be crossing something up when we're online at the same time?

Anyway, since I can't get the links to you in email, I'll post them here:

A Way To Survive
http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/a ... survive-sr

Faded Love
http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/faded-love

Night Life lead ride on E9th
http://soundcloud.com/excalibur-steel/night-life-ride

Oh, I know you'll ask me what guitar that was, so I'll tell you now: that was my red 1987 Mullen D-10 with E-66 pickups in it.

yeah i just had something strange too. i was about to tell you that, yes, i do want those songs with the steel way out front and when i clicked the submit i got an error sayin something about debug mode. seems to be fine now. don't know whats up with the email, tho. seems to be workin fine for me.

maybe i need to finally get my own service provider and off your isp account since my money situation is better. maybe both of us bein online at the same time might be messing something up somewhere.

anyhoo, yep i'd like those songs if you'll upload 'em and one more if you have it. billy the kid. we're gonna work that one up too and i remember i really liked how ya'll played that one. thanks again, bro!

Okay, I know what happened now, Danny. I just called my service provider and it seems we're both using the same IP address and we were cross-linked because we were online at the same time. My computer is set for "Obtain an IP address automatically" but you seem to have yours set as a static IP address. They said you need to go into your network settings and change it to "Obtain an IP address automatically" and that'll solve the issue. If you don't know how to do that, let me know and I'll walk you through it.

Okay, Danny, if you really want those songs I'll dig them out and upload them. Might take me a little, so it'll probably be this evening before I have them all uploaded for you. When you hear them, don't say I didn't warn you!

I know already that I've got "Billy The Kid" and I'll put that one up, too. Since that one is still on my hard drive, I'll upload it for you first.

i'm really doing too much typing today and my wrist is hurting but i wanted to hop back on and thank you for uploading those whatta band songs. i really love the way you do a way to survive!

i don't understand about all that ip address stuff but i have a neighbor who can help me make that change.

i'll check back on here tomorrow for those other songs and a big thanks for that, bro! your great!

Hey, Danny, no problem ... you're very welcome!

I, too, am spending too much time on here today and I haven't gotten anything done that I need to get done (but, it's so seldom I ever see you on here posting anything, too!).

I've never had Carpal Tunnel, but I understand it can be real painful, so don't worry about jumping in and doing a lot of typing. Get some rest and I hope your wrist gets to feeling better.

As far as the IP thing goes, all I know is the way the tech explained it, there's usually no conflict if two different computers end up with the same IP address, BUT it does make a difference if two different computers are on the same internet account and end up with the same IP address. He said all kinds of weirdness can happen and that it's liable to happen again if we don't correct it and we do that by making sure both of our computers are set for "Obtain an IP address automatically" as long as you're on my internet account. No need to rush off and get your own ISP; I know your situation and I'm happy to help you stay online, but let's do get this IP address situation straightened out.

Take care and I'll get busy uploading those songs for you; I'll post the links in this thread for you like the ones above.

Danny Dees, please update your email address in your forum profile. Click 'Profile" at the top of any forum page. It will send a verification to your new email address, to reactivate your membership with the new address.