The Steel Guitar Forum

I lifted this from the Johnny Cox thread "Playing the melody." A couple folks asked me to continue on to the next line, which also has some important bits to grasp. I felt that keeping it there would basically constitute hijacking Johnny's thread.

Basically, a lot of newer musicians are caught up in training their hands, feet and knees. YOU GOTTA TRAIN YOUR EARS. It's not enough to play your guitar, you gotta be able to understand the melody to play it and support it.

I think if you have the ear to tune your guitar, you should be able to grasp all of this stuff. It's important if you want to be able to improvise.

Anyway, back to the topic:

Each note in a scale (or, more precisely fitting this discussion, each note against a particular chord has its own "flavor," if you will. For instance, against a C chord, the E will always ring sweetly in the way a Maj 3rd tone will do, and C will always sound like the root. The 5th, G, will always stand out with a "strength" that almost sounds root-like. An A will have a "lean" to it, but not in any particular direction, while Bb will lean strongly as only a dominant 7th will do.
EDIT: after thinking on the nature of the 6th tone, it doesn't so much "lean" as "reach up," like a fifth trying to get something off the top shelf.
Take, for instance, the first verse of"Crazy Arms." I'll disregard "Now" as a pickup note, and some sing 3 and some sing 4.
"Blue ain't" is on 5. No other note against a chord sounds like that (if we're in C, that's a G note, but most men sing it in E, I sing it in G. This discussion will now modulate to E so that note is a B, but SCALE DEGREES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN NOTE NAMES). "The" is a 6th. see what I mean about leaning, but towards nothing in particular? That's a C# (not you, Cal) in E. "Word" is the 7. Properly called dominant 7, but we use it more than the Maj 7 so much more that usually the major 7 gets called major, and the dominant (or flatted 7, since in E the dom 7 is a D but the 7th note of the scale is D#) just gets called the 7th. Notice how that note has some TENSION to it. It really wants to lead the band to go up a fourth (in this case, that means to A). "for" is back to 6 and "the" is the 5 again.
Now the tricky bit. At the next measure, the band goes to the A chord, so "way" is on the 4th note of the key's scale, but it's the ROOT of the new chord; because we're discussing how to recognize and work with notes against chords, think of that A as root. Then the melody jumps down to E,but the band is still on the A chord, so "That I" doesn't sound like root, it sounds "fivey."
So does "feel," because the band just came back to E, and the melody is on a B note, the 5 of the E chord. Let me know if you want me to tackle the next line.
You don't HAVE to read music, you don't HAVE to know what's going on. But the more you know, the easier it is to make stuff happen.

The next 4 bars in the next post.

First, many musicians know this stuff instinctively, many learned it a long time ago. I had the amazing good fortune to have had a great musician father who was happy and eager to pass on his passion.
Once, early in my years of enforced piano lessons (I was probably 8 or 9), at a bluegrass festival, a train passed by and I could clearly hear the four chimes of the horn separately in the chord it blew. I asked dad if I had it right that there was a minor chord with a 7th on the top. He grinned big, congratulated me, then asked what else it was. "Huh?! it's a min. 7th. Whaddya mean what else?" He said "Amin7 has A,C,E&G. You see there's a C major in that, right? Now try to hear it that way with the next horn." And I did, and he explained the 6th tone, how it ornaments like a 7th without leading anywhere like a 7th (that part took awhile to sink in).
And to think I felt bad he wasn't into playing sports like the other dads. Sorry, I had the cool dad.

Ok, on to the next four bars.

The pickup note "and" is sometimes sung as root, sometimes as the maj7 (D#). The Maj7 very strongly leans towards root. You can feel it wanting to go back to 1.

"There's" is root. Note how strongly it sits on the chord.

"A" is 2, or in chord building we call it 9. Just as 6 feels like 5 on tiptoe, 9 feels like 1 reaching for something. If you get to 2/9 from a third, it feels like a third in midair after falling (or something similar)

"Storm" is the major third G#. This note sings sweetly as no other tone in/against a chord. See also "xas" in "T For Texas" It's "thirdy."

"a-" is that 9th again. Note how, although it's the same F# you just heard a beat and a half ago, it just feels different following a third.

"brewing" is the third again.

"in" usually features a slide from 5-6. Some hit it dead on 6. I like the slide; the singer has an A pedal With or without the slide, I hope you can feel that reachy feel of 6.

"this" is 5. Notice it feels almost as strongly rooted as the root itself?

"heart" is 4, A. You should feel how it really wants to drop that half step to 3.

"of" is 3 again, but it hits the ears a bit different than that major 3rd, because half the band is walking down to the V chord that comes on the next beat. At least it does to me. There's still some thirdiness, but notice it disappears on....

"mii-" is still G#. But this bar is the V chord, B. So G# has lost its thirdiness and hits the ears with the reaching stretch of 6, because it IS, and wants to resolve to...

"iine" is the 5th of B. So this F# sounds different from "A" back in the 5th bar. It's five now, and solidly planted in that B chord.


I'll skip bars 8-12 as they're the same as 1-4

I'll be back with 13-16, they're different.

Lane, That is so cool that your Dad was able to help you with music.

Completely. Didn't hurt that from my age 9 through 26, Dad had Mike Auldridge for a bandmate. Not a bad source for Dobro and steel lessons.
I had a lucky childhood

Lane, you missed one on that train horn! I worked over 40 years on the rails, and (aside from the old single note horns from when I started) they have either 3 or 5 bells on the horns. Since you heard at least 4 notes, it must have been a 5-chime. (most likely, the 5th horn was full of dirt and crud and didn't sound, anyway!)

Humor aside, it's impressive you were able to analyze that sound on the fly as you did. I've got a LOT to learn!

I think one must be an octave. I hear a minor7 from almost every train horn.
Do you happen to know the standard notes of a 5-chime horn?

But dad was, and still is, eager to share his passions. The music stuck, the maps, notsomuch (he's the only National Geographic cartographer to have worked on all 9 editions of the Atlas: I could fold a roadmap before I could read one)

I'll have a bit more but after Western Swing and Other Things on www.hppr.org (every Saturday 10-1 central time)

I did wanna point out that not only do those characteristics serve to help identify the notes as they're played and sung, but if you wanna think that hard, you can choose the notes of a solo by their effect. It's what composers do

Lane - This is great stuff! Don't stop. Thanks!

Thank you, Bud. I shall.
Trying to put it into words reminds me of the great quote from the late Frank Zappa:
" Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."

Lane, there are a lot of different tunings to various train horns, they are not all the same. There are folks who collect them as a hobby and know all the various models and designations, and tunings. I worked for the railroad and as long as it made noise coming to a crossing, I didn't care. I DO know there were two major (no pun intended) manufacturers, Nathan Co. and Leslie Inc.

I believe somewhere I DO have some of the tunings and if I find them I'll shoot you a PM. On second thought, since some train songs might benefit from a horn sound on the steel, I'll post them for all.

OK, here's bars 13-16, skipping 9-12, since it's just 1-4 with different words.

"and" is another 9th. I find that either ungrounded or following a 3, they sing differently than following a root. I choose, since the same degree has different uses by context, to call it 2 when following a root and 9 the rest.

"that's" is, again the 3. I hope you can hear that sweetness. Most singers will drop the tail end down to a 9, partly for ornamentation and partly because it sounds better when you repeat a note on the next beat, like ...

"Why" is a 3

"I'm" is that strong 5 again. Sometimes it has a tinge of a 7 feel here, which is fine. There's a chord change on the next beat and tension beforehand is good. That's because the bass is usually walking down to the B chord, and is hitting a C# here , to which B is the 7.

"lone-" is an A, but no longer is 4. Since we went to the V chord, that's b7. It's not as tense as "word" back in the second bar because it's half as long.

"-ly" is F#, but 5 since we're in V

"all" is 4 of 5. Not root yet, it feels like a note hovering *suspended* over the 3rd, used here as a passing tone, but since it's also root for the whole song, it lets the next note do double duty.

"the" is third of the V chord, and you can hear some thirdly sweetness to it. But since they just laid that E down, you can also (or should: if not, well working on your analytical ear is what this thread is about. I'll try to help get you there) hear WHY the seventh degree is called the "leading tone." It strongly wants to pull you back up to 1. Especially on the last beat of the last bar of the V chord, as in this case. It therefore surprises nobody that the next note is ...

"time." 1. of 1. Solidly back home.

I'm inclined to tackle Bob Wills' "If No News Is Good News" next. Unless somebody has another idea or request.

Those of you who see me on Facebook, on my profile it lists one book. I recommend it. It's a look into how our brain processes sound and how it and music work together. "No News" illustrates one aspect of what makes some passages make us perk up our ears and brains, as discussed in the book. It's written by a rock record producer turned neuroscientist, Daniel Levitin

Thanks Lane, Great stuff for us freshman PSGers

Got to learn to walk, or crawl, before you run.

E9 players can learn the E scale on the 7th fret using A, B and F and begin to learn Lane's Lesson. Yep, you can do it all on, or almost all of the melody on the 7th fret. Us 12 stringers can get two octives starting at the seventh fret, string # 10 as the 10th string note,there is a D# and we can use the F pedal to begin with the E root note.

Pedals A B F lever
1 C#
2 A#/Bb
3 D# E
4 B C
5 F# G#
6 D# E
7 C#
8 B C
10F# G#
11B
12F#

After you learn the melody using the scale you can spread it out, in any key you want, all over the neck. The harmonized scale sounds great with this melody.

George, I'd say not just Steelers. All musicians that haven't learned it, or something like it, need this, or something like it. You can learn all the scales you like, but nobody teaches anyone WHAT TO DO WITH THESE STINKIN' SCALES.
So by learning ear training (especially with learning the different flavors of each scale degree), you not only can learn to find a melody as it flies by, but as you progress beyond just "licks" and rides you learned from Emmons tab and Mickey videos (in no way disparaging Steiner tab and Bobbe videos) on to writing your own melodies, you can keep the "flavors" or characteristics of each in mind, knowing that, for instance, that Maj 3rd note is NOT gonna get up in the audience's face a la Jimmy Day unless you pair it with a 1, 5 or b7: IT'S TOO SWEET ON ITS OWN. That's why the opening passage of that Spring section of Vivaldi's Four Seasons is so heavy on them.

EDIT: George, for measures 2 and 10 (and for laziness' sake, 3 and 11), I'd recommend using fret 5, like all tab I've ever seen. Drop the Ds, pedal into the b7 tone with the B pedal. Harmonize the 7 by squeezing the A pedal, turning the roots into 9s. I know I said I'd call it a 2 if it came after a root, but the 3rd and b7 remove that twoness, making it unmistakably a 9

PS: That's what gives the different guitar chords their different flavors:
E: three roots, two 5s and only one 3. And a root is on top. The top defines the flavor, that's why composers put the melody on top.
A: a little less strong, two 1s, 3 5s and only 1 3.
G: still awful strong with 3 roots, but sweeter with two 3s
C, 3-fimger: weak but pretty wth 3 thirds, 1 5 and two roots. The pinky on the sixth string G strengthens it, but it and the D chord are weakened and kept purty by the high 3.

Lane, if I remember my theory correctly using 9 is correct.
You use the 1, 3, 5, 7 when making up Major chords the first time through the scale. The second becomes a nine as you are adding it,usually, to the dominate 7th chord to get that sweet beautiful 9th tone. The 4th becomes a 11th chord change as you add it to dominate or major 7th & 9th tone. Same with the 6/13th tone. Gotta go Practice my two note, 3rd and 6th harmony stuff. later

You absolutely have it right for chord theory. But for the purpose of either introducing ear training or applying the reverse, I chose to call it 2 when it follows a 1, for it hits the ear differently that way, not to mention that it IS the second scale degree. I call it 9 when it sounds and works as a 9. Since I'm trying to discuss mainly ear training, recognizing which notes are flying by, I'd say both are right, and both need to get recognized

I think this FREE piece of software might help.


Functional Ear Trainer

EDIT: Can't seem to create a link today. The URL is http://www.miles.be/software/34-functio ... trainer-v2

Unlike most ear training apps where you just identify an interval, this app asks you to identify degrees of the scale in the context of a chord progression.

I haven't downloaded version 2, but I played around with the first version several years ago and I wish I had stuck with it because it really helps to understand the flavors that Lane is describing in this thread.

When I get home tomorrow Ill throw you guys a bone...We'll do the melody line to I Couldnt Leave you If I Tried...Ive been thinking about it and I've got some great ideas for this one...Hopefully it will tie a few of those melody lines to the stinkin scales for ya...

Yeah! That melody line spends a lot of time NOT on the chord notes, IIRC. A lot of time spent hanging 6s and 9s.

If I thought I could do it without stammering and stuttering, I'd try making a video of one of these things.

You, sir, make that look so easy

That would be great. I like the "tab" and scale postings to put on YouTube, but some work in the area of turning scales into melody would be most beneficial. Sometimes hearing it explained makes more sense to me than reading the explanation.

So, since you inspired me to take this on (although the idea had percolated in my brain before), Rick, I'll ask you.
Is this thread helpful?
I also find it frustrating to be told "look to the scale," as the scale doesn't come with instructions. I'd hoped a discussion of the flavors of the notes helps.
If there's a song in mind that you'd want me to tackle, let me know.
I'm no doctorate, I only got to MU102.
But a bit of knowledge with a bunch of application seems to work (although I wish I had knowledge like Russ Wever. He's who I turn to when I find a passage cool but don't understand WHY it's cool) for me.
Like my dad up at the top of the thread, I got a passion for music and the steel. I'll share it with anyone who'll listen

Lane, did you have a chance to checkout that application I posted? I'm wondering if you think it would be worthwhile?

The description looks good. Sadly, my net is limited to my Droid. Due to living in the sticks, my home PC has no 'net access.
I might save the file to the phone, then install on my PC later

Thanks to Lane, I think I had a breakthrough in learning to play the melody, but I need confirmation that I'm heading in the right direction. I guess it isn't much different than what other people have written but Lane explained it at the most basic level, which is what everyone else seemed to skip (as least for me).

Per his first post above, I wrote out the first line of Crazy Arms and under the words wrote the number of the note within the scale. I then took my C Scale and played the 5, 6, 7, 5 under the corresponding words up to the first chord change, as laid out by Lane, to see if I could hear the melody, and think it clicked. If you play notes from the scale from the corressponding chord, you are in the melody? And when the chord changes, you change to that scale?

If I'm on the right track (admittedly I have not yet reat his second follow-up post yet, that's coming tonight or tomorrow), then how do I know which way to go for the note? How do I know to go from the 6th note to the 7th then to the 5th? Do I follow the general pitch of the words?

I understand there's more to read in this post, but I want to make sure my thinking is right before I get much deeper into it -- thanks!

Generally, the melody gets all its notes from the scale. Crazy Arms takes only 5 beats (6 if you count pickup notes) to break that rule. A b7 isn't part of the scale (see the footnote¹ for explanation of what's happening there, but that's probably beyond what you're ready for).

The other question: yes, listen to the words, or at least the notes behind them.
I certainly hope that you can hear that the pitches behind Blue, The, and Word are all climbing, and that For, The, Way, and That all fall, and that "I" rises a small bit and "Feel" drops HARD.

If you can hear that as well as those "flavors," you're doing good. If you only notice a difference, but aren't sure which way, I'd urge you to confine your steel time to right hand drills, and get that app that James mentioned and work with it (wouldn't help to give us a review from the point of view of a newcomer). Hearing what's happening is a big part of playing successfully.

It sounds like you're on the right track, though


¹A b7 of the 1 chord uses what's called "secondary dominance, wherein you "borrow" a related key. Here you borrow the key of A, and you're on the V of A. The V chord has that b7 thing happening