The Steel Guitar Forum

First time posting at this great site. I would appreciate some guidance. I would like to play western swing. I play guitar and have some experience with banjo. Do I jump right into pedal steel or start with lap steel? Thanks in advance for your feedback.
John

Pedal steel is like a Ferrari, better know how to endlessly work on it or afford to have it done (and a dolly to haul it around), versus an equally worthy ride that allows you to simply sit down and get it on. Then be able to just grab it and go. It's all about what you put into it.

Western Swing was begun on lap (then console) steel and stayed that way for a loooong time, and some of the best players in the genre still use it. Get yourself some CDs by Bob Wills and his brother Billy Jack, Spade Cooley, Tex Williams, Milton Brown, and you'll hear a nice selection of some of the greats of steel, no pedals necessary.

And by the way: you have good taste. Everybody into Western Swing has good taste.

Mike Anderson wrote:Western Swing was begun on lap (then console) steel and stayed that way for a loooong time, and some of the best players in the genre still use it. Get yourself some CDs by Bob Wills and his brother Billy Jack, Spade Cooley, Tex Williams, Milton Brown, and you'll hear a nice selection of some of the greats of steel, no pedals necessary.

And by the way: you have good taste. Everybody into Western Swing has good taste.

Don't forget Johnny Lee Wills. He had a hot band, took over at Cain's Ballroom when Bob went to California. btw, I play western swing on both pedal and non-pedal steel guitars. It depends on the gig, although I prefer non-pedal. - JACK

''Don't forget Johnny Lee Wills.''............................and don't forget Bob Dunn......the original.

Thanks for your advice guys! Lap steel it is. Do any brands lend themselves better to western swing (tone quality)? Lastly 6,7 or 8 strings?
Thanks again,
John

Jack, I'd never forget Bob had two brothers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyaLJFPQ-48

Bob Dunn really did get the whole thing rolling, didn't he? On acoustic, before the idea of a purpose-built "steel guitar" had even begun. Those were some hot tunes, yass yass!

John Halpern wrote:Thanks for your advice guys! Lap steel it is. Do any brands lend themselves better to western swing (tone quality)? Lastly 6,7 or 8 strings?
Thanks again,
John

John, one thing I've learned in my own brief time with steel is that there are as many opinions about these questions as there are players. But basically, more strings = more harmonic possibilities. There are some great threads in this forum about tunings, some quite recent. Search for C6 and E13 for example.

I'd say 8-string C6 (ACEGACEG - low to high), and pick up Cindy Cashdollar's lap steel instructional video. That'll get ya started on western swing style, and keep ya busy for awhile. Branch out from there when you're ready.

John,

Here is a link to some songs and tabs along with a few backing tracks that will give you a pretty good start and also give you a good idea of what can be done with "just" 6 strings.

Tom
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Tab/LapTab.html

I also use a C6 but with a Bb on the bottom for nice fat backing chords. I do tune it to A for "Panhandle Rag" - Bb/A C E G A C E G. The high G is valuable for "Crazy". Bobby Ingano and Henry Allen use this tuning. They both play jazz-like. Alan Akaka and Greg Sardinha use C [very low!] G C E G A C E, for Hawaiian music.

6 or 8 or 10 strings, might be a more complete question

John Aldrich wrote:Bobby Ingano plays jazz-like. Alan Akaka and Greg Sardinha for Hawaiian music.

Many more than just me would say the Filipino out Hawaiian's the Hawaiians.

Ron Whitfield wrote:6 or 8 or 10 strings, might be a more complete question

John Aldrich wrote:Bobby Ingano plays jazz-like. Alan Akaka and Greg Sardinha for Hawaiian music.

Many more than just me would say the Filipino out Hawaiian's the Hawaiians.

He rarely admits it, but Bobby has a Hawaiian grandmother. She was a Kaopuiki, who was the grandmother of Uncle Danny Kaopuiki and Peter Tabali, Seattle musicians who hail from Lanai. Kaopuiki is a Lanai name.

John Aldrich wrote:

Ron Whitfield wrote:6 or 8 or 10 strings, might be a more complete question

John Aldrich wrote:Bobby Ingano plays jazz-like. Alan Akaka and Greg Sardinha for Hawaiian music.

Many more than just me would say the Filipino out Hawaiian's the Hawaiians.

He rarely admits it, but Bobby has a Hawaiian grandmother. She was a Kaopuiki, who was the grandmother of Uncle Danny Kaopuiki and Peter Tabali, Seattle musicians who hail from Lanai. Kaopuiki is a Lanai name.

Oh - Greg is a "potagee".

John Aldrich wrote:Bobby has a Hawaiian grandmother from Lanai.

I'd say a big Hawaiian heart counts for more than any drop of Hawaiian blood, no matter who we're speaking about. And as he always says when debating who plays more Hawaiian... "I'm not Hawaiian".

Having just got off the phone with Bobby about this, he say's at this point it's unvarified that there is a Kaopuiki relation, but could well be. He's going to investigate further, so thanx for the spur, Jack.

Greg is a "potagee".
Better be ready to duck when you say that!

Lap Steel vs Pedal Steel--don't know how to answer that, as I am HOPELESSLY locked between the two!!! Loving each to the hilt!!! This past year I've been playing exclusively Hawaiian nonpedal steel guitar, trying to unlock the secrets of the great Hawaiian steel players--Jules Ah See & Barney Isaacs. Hawaiian steel was always on the back-burner of my mind, while I dove head-first into the world of C/W music playing pedal steel, starting at about 1975. Maybe if I relate some of my past experiences of how I got involved with all the STEEL GUITAR CRAZINESS, it may help you.

When I got out of the service, just before 1975, I really wanted to continue with nonpedal steel, but it was like--the market dictated what was to be played--and that was--pedal steel. Local steel players & the BIG BOYS: such as Buddy Emmons, Paul Franklin, Lloyd Green, etc, etc--were playing pedal steel. I remember from my first band at that time and on forward, with all the info I had, I really felt that I had to play pedal steel. As time went on, & I started to go thru the URBAN COWBOY era, it was proven that I had to use pedal steel to copy all the parts: kick-offs, fills, & the great steel breaks of the songs we were covering at the time. We were covering songs of the great George Strait era, the Alan Jackson era, the Ricky Skaggs era, Ray Price, Gene Watson, Mark Chestnut, on-n-on it went.

It's not to say you can't play all that stuff on nonpedal steel--I'm very sure you could!!! You say you want to play Western Swing--well, look at ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL, for example, I've seen them many times thru the years on TV & it seemed that they would bounce back & forth between pedal steel & nonpedal steel players--in recent years, it seems they were leaning more towards nonpedal!

A lot of it was just sheer SPARKS FLYING kind-of-thing. If the big boys were playing pedal steel, then us local players have got to do the same!! It seemed that no matter which way I turned thru those years, I was continually supported/confronted with positive feedback that I was doing the right thing. However, knowing what I know NOW--about Lap vs pedal, whichever you choose, you just can't go wrong!

If any of this makes any sense--then please let me know-as I can't make any sense out of it myself!!!!

My very first official band--about 1975!

[imhttp://bb.steelguitarforum.com/userpix1029/4309_My_first_band1975_1.jpg[/img]

That picture reminds me of the 1970 era, a bit faded and foggy, but fun!

Yeah and looking through "Rose Colored Glasses"!!

I can't live without the two... Lap steel and Pedal steel.
Check me out here... WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/SERAFINPOL

My experience is that unless one wants to play the E9 Nashville sound, one doesn't want to buy a pedal guitar. It's just not going to be worth it for most people.

Mike Anderson wrote:Jack, I'd never forget Bob had two brothers. ...

Time for a memory check, Mike.

Bob had three brothers; Luther J., Billy Jack, and Johnny Lee. He also had six sisters; Ruby, Eloise, Olga, Helen, Lorene, and Jesse Wayne.

Thanks Herb, didn't know about Luther. Was he a muso and are there are any recordings of him? Don't suppose Luke Wills was a relation too?

Hang on - Google tells me they (Luke and Luther) were one and the same! How cool!

cheers - Mike.

I would have to say it is what one wants to play. For instance,if one wants to play country he gets a fiddle. If he wants to play classical one gets a violin.

I know i know,i'm going.

While were throwin' Hawaiian names around let's not forget about Casey Olsen(Jerry Byrd student,His Dad played with J.B.)Greg Sardinha has also been know to use C13 tuning on his Stringmaster and Canopus.
Dana