Why is the E9th neck always on the front??

Jarek Anderson · Post by **Jarek Anderson** » 29 Jan 2012 3:05 pm

Sorry if this has been answered before, but my searches only yeilded that curly walker had a guitar that was reversed.

So my question is: Why is the c6th neck the closest one on doubleneck guitars. It seems to be that there is more playing done on e9th necks? There are few (if any) singleneck guitars that are only c6th... so I'm thinking that the e9th neck is the more often used one.

I've never sat behind a d-10 or any other guitar except for my Carter S10 and a few others at Al Brisco's... so forgive me if the answer is painfully obvious!

-jarek

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jan 2012 3:18 pm

Mainly tradition. I saw one youtube video of Mooney that looked like he had C6 out front (or was it Hamlet? I spent a day sick watching youtube)
It does appear that most find the second neck more comfy, so they put the most often used neck out front.

Russell Nugent · Post by **Russell Nugent** » 29 Jan 2012 3:31 pm

Ralph Mooney and Curly Chalker are two who had the E9th on the back neck. Not sure about others.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 29 Jan 2012 4:04 pm

This subject has come up before, several times. The majority of double-neck pedal steels have C6 closest to the player, but not all. Yet the pedals are set up so that the E9 pedals are almost always to the left, making the C6 pedals more difficult to reach.
It's just tradition.

But don't assume that everyone uses the E9 neck more than the C6 neck. I play the C6 neck about 80% of the time.

Also, this tradition doesn't come from non-pedal guitars. Non-pedal console steels can be set up any way you want. In fact, because there's no copedant to worry about, there are a lot of variations in set up. Most non-pedal steel players don't have E9 on either neck.

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 29 Jan 2012 4:46 pm

My '75 MSA D-12 Classic had C6 front, E9 in the back. Mostly because I played more C6 and it's mainly more confortable playing the front, (IMHO)

Buddy Castleberry · Post by **Buddy Castleberry** » 29 Jan 2012 5:05 pm

doug jernigan also had a p/p emmons with e9th on back neck .seen him on the porter wagoner show a couple months ago

Jarek Anderson · Post by **Jarek Anderson** » 29 Jan 2012 5:52 pm

Thanks for the quick replies!

Alan: Do you use knee levers at the same time as the pedals in your c6th playing? If not, it makes sense to me why they might put the e9 pedals within easy access of lkl and lkr. But if you do use both at the same time... it must get tough to maneuver under there!

Curly Chalker! My bad... I thought it looked wrong as I typed it.

Lane: do you ever play a s10? Would you be able to describe to me what's different between an s10 and the e9th neck on a d10? I can see that almost all are a little higher than the c6th, but maybe its that they're out further from the body? I guess this is how the sd-10 came to be???

thanks again,

Jarek

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 29 Jan 2012 8:39 pm

My GFI has the E9 in close to me. Far neck is fretted because that's how Gene Fields did it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jan 2012 9:52 pm

The SD-10 was pretty much Lloyd's invention, as he hardly ever touched his C6.
The front E9 neck is the same as an S-10.
My first guitar was an S-10. the only way I'd give up a D-10 would be for a universal, I love the 6 neck.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 30 Jan 2012 12:11 am

Jarek Anderson wrote:Alan: Do you use knee levers at the same time as the pedals in your c6th playing? If not, it makes sense to me why they might put the e9 pedals within easy access of lkl and lkr. But if you do use both at the same time... it must get tough to maneuver under there!

Most C6 players do use the KLs at the same time as the pedals. However, there is usually a separate set of KLs for the left leg, situated near the midpoint of the guitar, so the left leg is not using the same KLs on C6 as on E9. Hence the left foot is within easier reach of the C6 pedals (shifted toward the right). On the other hand, the KLs for the right leg usually work on both the E9 and the C6 necks (and might as well, since your leg is stuck in that location anyway, in order to work the volume pedal).

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 30 Jan 2012 9:51 am

Jarek Anderson wrote:...Alan: Do you use knee levers at the same time as the pedals in your c6th playing? If not, it makes sense to me why they might put the e9 pedals within easy access of lkl and lkr. But if you do use both at the same time... it must get tough to maneuver under there!
...

Generally speaking I don't use knee levers on C6. Most of the D10s I have don't have knee levers on the C6 neck. The Fender cable-operated instruments have no knee levers at all, and the Sho-Bud Crossover, of which I have two, has only one knee lever, which you can assign to either neck (as you can all the pedals too).

John Swain · Post by **John Swain** » 30 Jan 2012 11:26 am

My understanding: you often use two feet on C6, so by having it on back neck you can see your feet if you need to!..JS

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 30 Jan 2012 12:06 pm

That's why I want a new S-10 (not an SD-10)set up C6th. So the pedals are to the left.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 30 Jan 2012 5:22 pm

There have been plenty of S10 pedal steels set up for C6 over the years, but they don't come on sale very often unless you order a brand new one.

Have you ever considered an S12 universal ?

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 31 Jan 2012 5:53 am

Alan, Personally, I don't like the U12. I had one for 3 years and never got along with it. Too heavy, and the tuning didn't get along with me. I don't like the D10 because it seems that the C6 gets the leftovers in as far as the setup...pedals and levers, and it's too heavy also. I'd like the pedals more to the left and an ultra light body. Kind of like a C6 version of the Stage One, or reasonable facsimile. I'd rather have two light weight guitars, than one that I dread lifting and moving, and then it not even being ideal to my likes. I play in one place where I could use C6 all night.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 31 Jan 2012 7:34 am

The closer to the middle of the guitar a pedal is, (from headstock to changer) the more the cabinet will drop or flex. This is why I never use a zero pedal, and why I prefer Emmons to day set ups. The E9 tuning is more subject to discern-able cabinet drop de-tuning because of the more open nature of the voicing, and the thinner strings. It is much less noticeable on C6, so it makes sense to have those pedals in the less supported middle of the guitar. There is also the option of two footed playing on C6.

of course if one were to set up a guitar with E9 at the back but with the pedals in traditional abc/cba position at the left side of the guitar, the point is moot.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 31 Jan 2012 7:45 am

john widgren wrote:The closer to the middle of the guitar a pedal is, (from headstock to changer) the more the cabinet will drop or flex. This is why I never use a zero pedal, and why I prefer Emmons to day set ups. The E9 tuning is more subject to discern-able cabinet drop de-tuning because of the more open nature of the voicing, and the thinner strings. It is much less noticeable on C6, so it makes sense to have those pedals in the less supported middle of the guitar. There is also the option of two footed playing on C6.

Interesting...........but you could easily place the E9th neck in back and still use the left-most pedals with it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 31 Jan 2012 7:45 am

Option? Unless you put either P5 or P7 on a knee, double-footing only becomes optional if you abandon one of the staples in the chordal vocabulary.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 31 Jan 2012 7:47 am

yes tony.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 31 Jan 2012 7:50 am

Lane Gray wrote:Option? Unless you put either P5 or P7 on a knee, double-footing only becomes optional if you abandon one of the staples in the chordal vocabulary.

100% agree......5,6,&7 are "the staples" of C6th and I love using all 3 together.

That's why I have an extra 5th string G-->F# on my RKR. It allows me to avoid double-footing (something I'm always loathe to do).

John Swain · Post by **John Swain** » 31 Jan 2012 11:59 am

Tony, in truth I also avoid using both feet but for 5,6,+7 pedals I prefer 5,6 pedals, lower 3 string and play 1st string(D)...

John, That fact is obvious when you have PF on pedal 4..If you push down too hard you can watch your 6th string go way flat..And congrats on your new Show Pro( I have it as my desktop background!)..JS

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 31 Jan 2012 12:00 pm

I'd like to have 3 or maybe 4 pedals and 5 knees with pedals over to the left. The less pedals the better for me, my foot coordination has never been that good and when I have to reach for the far right pedals my LKL is gone, and LKR gets in the way. I don't want any double footing the pedals either.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 31 Jan 2012 1:09 pm

Hi John, Thanks! I'm very happy with the new guitar, she's a honey.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 31 Jan 2012 1:28 pm

deleted..

Robert Parent · Post by **Robert Parent** » 31 Jan 2012 2:11 pm

I had a Sho Bud Pro II with the necks reversed which I played for about 10 years. It really is just what you get use to. When I later bought a different steel it took a couple months before playing the top neck felt comfortable.

Robert

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Why is the E9th neck always on the front??

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