The Steel Guitar Forum

hey guys, who out there has switched from E9 to Universal tuning?...I would like to hear your view points. Do you like it or regret trying it...?Does it present significant advantages or is it just plain confusing Thanks,Pete

My personal experience is very positive. In fact when I went back to a 10 string guitar I set it up as a sort of universal because I like it better.

Search this subject and you'll find a wealth of discussion.

I vote UNI, especially if you play several styles, including classic country and western, but not those two exclusively.

I just swithed from E9 to a Universal 12 and at this point(one month into it)I am very pleased. I have only barely scratched the surface of the B6 side but I really like how the E9 stuff works on the U12 and see lots of opportunity for learning. So I feel it has expanded my E9 vocabulary and I still have the B6 to explore. Not at all sorry I did it.

Well, it's essentially the only tuning I've used -- for more than 35 years, so I may not be a good guinea pig. I did play a S-10 for 6 months in 1974, then bought a D-12 and put Bb6 on the back neck, then moved it up to B6, then went to E9/B6 (and a single-12) in the course of the next year. I've been playing E9/B6 ever since.

The answer to your question depends on a lot of things. For example,
* Do you want to learn C6/B6?
* Do you feel you need the lower range E9/B6 U12 offers?
* What 'significant advantages' are you expecting?

It's just a tuning, no better or worse than E9 or C6. It does have most of the aspects of both, so it is by definition more complicated to learn. Personally, I wouldn't play any other tuning, but that decision is nothing but a matter of personal preference.

If you have questions or want to discuss what you are looking to accomplish -- just reply here or send me EMail and we'll explore what you're after.

Do I understand correctly?

My 10 string has the E9 tuning.
I could change it to a universal tuning?
How would this be accomplished?

Just a beginner's quest for knowledge.

Pete - If you have the time and desire to practice I think you will find that you can get more variety out of the U-12 tuning than a double 10. Don't think you have to play only "Newman" style copedant to play U-12. Whatever setup you are comfortable will work. I play Emmons style (E's on the left knee and standard floor pedal setup)because I like to play other S-10 and D-10 guitars and they are often set up Emmons style. Good luck...

I played a friend's Uni 12 and I've thought about tuning my E9 to a 10 string Uni. I play a D10 but could never get anywhere with it but, could get more 6th out of E9. Check this 10 string Uni tuning out.

http://b0b.com/tunings/kappen.htm

Tony

I'm currently switching my C6 neck to strings 2-11 of the Reece Anderson Bb6 tuning (I need to order a handful of pullrods and bellcranks to complete it) while I look for a 12 (D-12, SD-12 or S-12, doesn't matter) to trade for my MSA D-10.

I'm very impressed with it so far, and I kinda like the Anderson "6th" pedals a tad better. Given that I've been known to change necks mid-solo, the universal has a strong appeal to me, and I'm having a ball with it and look forward to the full tuning.

If you're curious about the other Universal tuning, have a look here: bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=217644

Since I live in Kauai (where they don't fully grasp classic E9 steel) I am working on a C6 universal - the idea of which came from Paul Franklin's pedabro tuning.
I have my D-10 Rittenberry set up with it right now but am having Gary build me an S-10 as a stand alone guitar. It is a fully loaded C6 (5 pedals & 5 knee levers) PLUS A & B pedals based on the C6 tuning. P1 raises G to A & P2 raises the E's to F. It does what the E9 does- I chord to IV chord. And levers give me the equivalent of E to F and E to Eb changes. The advantage is that it will allow me to play comfortably on an S-10 and then sit down on my D-10 with no need to "rethink" my playing.

It is very similar to Reese's approach - just 10 strings.

Jim

If I was gonna do that, I'd have a lever raising the Es to F, with the "A" pedal raising the Cs to D and the "B" pedal raising the As to Bb.


One of the handiest melodic features of the E9 tuning is having that 9 (or 2) between your roots and thirds. Your scheme omits that, and I think it a crucial part.

YMM, of course, Vary

Hi Lane,
Actually I do have the E to F on my LKV as well as on P2. (Actually if it the reverse P 6 - but it raises the center E to F). So P 1 & 2 give me the classic E9 sounds (with 9th on top) but still having the ability to play ALL of my C6 stuff. Since I play a great deal of C6 here I can accomplish both on a single neck. And play Sneaky Pete licks too! It isn't a perfect set up - but it will allow me to transition between my D-1 0 and S-10 without any major shifts. And the guitar in case with 7 & 6 will weigh under 50 lbs!

Your thought are indeed welcomed as Gary is still finishing the guitar up & should have it to me by March first. Anything I can do to enhance the copedant now is well worth the effort!

Jim

P.S. - I currently raises my A's to Bb on a lever - but the new guitar will have a 1/2 stop - A to Bb/B.

Jim

I switched from playing E-9th to a U-12 in about 2005. I learned and played E-9th for about 30 yrs before that. I always liked playing some western swing, but, my E-9th tuning lacked the lower strings, that, I wanted to hear. The U-12 enables me to get those notes without changing from one neck to another. It's a seemless transition during any song.
I'm very comfortable with my steel, also. A single neck 12 fits me to a tee. I don't care for D-10's because my arms are short and I don't like reaching out for the E-9th neck, which, I play more often than not. I use Jeff Newmans universal tuning on my U-12 ZumSteel, but, I also added another knee lever for a couple of extra changes. For the music I like to play, the U-12 with this tuning works fine for me, your mileage may vary, though. I actually wish I had made the change earlier in my career because there's so much to play on this steel.

Thanks for all the great posts !I am getting ready to buy a Mullin S12 UNIVERSAL.....Looking at this copedent, I'm thinking I can make this transition and look forward to its challenges...Thanks again, Pete

Jim, if you choose to have the B pedal work on the A strings (I guess you could call it C6/F9), then the B pedal also gives the handy dom7 as well. Like I said, I find that Bb6 approach brain-tickling, like looking at the standard steel tunings through a prism. I'd never looked at it that way before

I've played a U-12 more or less since day 1. I like its extended bass range. Here is my copedant. You can see the E9 changes on the bass strings.

The W stands for the wrist lever.

Pedal 5 is the B6 "D" Lever, but it also functions as an E9 lever, both by itself and in conjunction with the E9 "C" pedal. My RKR also functions on both sides of the tuning. On the E9, it gives me the missing D note, in the B6, it is the "C" pedal (I release the LKR when I use it.)

This setup allows me to keep my right foot on the volume pedal at all times.

Universal seems less confusing to me because B6th chords line up with E9th chords and are not one fret off as on a C6th neck.
Plus it is lighter to pack around.
I recommend Herb Steiner's Swinging on E9th and
Jeff Newman's Universal course which focuses on the B6th side and is essentially a C6th course in B6th geared to Universal.
Jeff Newman has a Universal tuning DVD that is for people considering Uni tuning called "The 12 String E9th/B6th Universal Tuning"

http://www.jeffran.com/courses.php?content=VideoCourses
http://www.herbsteiner.com/

Intro to Universal Video. no heckling allowed.
http://steel-guitar-austin.com/57.html

I have been playing for about 2 1/2 months, on an old Emmons student. I like it a lot and will continue, so I will need a new guitar in about a year or so. Decided that a U-12 is probably the way to go.

Since I haven't been playing long it would not be a big change for me to anticipate the U12 and set up the levers on my Emmons so I do not have to re-learn things.

But I see very little consensus on where levers should be.

Is it easy to relearn and I shouldn't be too concerned with the switch? If you could do it over how would you have set up the levers on an E-9 to make it easier.

I think Joe Wrights setup is as good as any, with E-D# on RKR and E-F on LKL. Any disadvantage to that?

Do you use these much when doing the C6 swing stuff? Do you use the levers at all when using both feet on the pedals? Seems if you do these levers should be on the inside not the outside. That would be more common on both E-9 and U-12? That is E-F LKR and E-D# RKL.

My E-F is on my LKL, which, works perfectly with the A pedal and or A+B pedals. It's a minimal movement change. My E-Eb (D#) is on my RKR. I've found it really easy to just lean my knee over to the right to achieve this, plus I could hold it there forever if I wanted to without any fatigue. It just seems natural, to me. I didn't choose the "lever lock" to hold the E's to Eb because I like to use the full spectrum of the tuning without any restrictions.
As a side note- I don't think you'll have any trouble with a copedant change at all. Just keep practising with it, when, you get it. Your brain will learn quicker than you think it will.

I switched to a U12 last summer after playing D-10 for about 5 years. After an initial adjustment I can play pretty much all my E9 stuff. I am still trying to get used to the B6 side after spending a fair amount of time learning C6. I'm glad I made the switch. The only downside seems to be the tone is not as good. Might be due to a larger coil in the pickup or maybe the additional mass of a D10. Even non-players tell me that my old D10 sounded better. and it certainly recorded better. Who knows?

Dave O'Brien wrote:

Similar to above, but I use the 9th string D and sacrifice the 10th string G#. I use a a lock-lever. (see below) to toggle between tunings. This allows for a traditional E9th and B6th tuning. Works great. Hit the knee lever and flip the lock in or out.

OPEN----------LOCK

F#
D#
G#
E--------------Eb
B
G#
F#
E--------------Eb
D--------------B
B--------------G#
E
B

By using the A6th side of the E9th tuning (pedals-down), I have found most of the stuff that you would find on a C6/B6 neck anyhow....on a 10-string tuning. Just eliminate that D string as you would on any E9/B6 setup...pull the B to D on a KL, again, as you would in the standard Uni setup. And the "grips" are basically standard E9th-tuning-type "grips".
I played a 12-string E9/B6 since 1985, but have opted for the scaled-down 10-string setup in recent years because I can "get more stuff" out of it.
PRR

By using the A6th side of the E9th tuning (pedals-down), I have found most of the stuff that you would find on a C6/B6 neck anyhow....on a 10-string tuning. Just eliminate that D string as you would on any E9/B6 setup...pull the B to D on a KL, again, as you would in the standard Uni setup. And the "grips" are basically standard E9th-tuning-type "grips".
I played a 12-string E9/B6 since 1985, but have opted for the scaled-down 10-string setup in recent years because I can "get more stuff" out of it.
PRR