How do I make this transition gracefully?

James Mayer · Posted 3 Dec 2011 3:48 pm

I'm practicing a simple harmonized scale with that A+B pedals on the G# and B strings.

So, in the key of C:
1) pedals down at third fret
2) up three frets with no pedals.

Releasing the pedals lowers the pitch at the same time as I'm sliding up....which doesn't sound great. I figure you guys have some tricks.

Same problem as sliding up from the pedals down V chord up to the VI. It sounds a lot better using slants without pedals to make the transition.

James Mayer · Posted 3 Dec 2011 5:32 pm

I realize it's a newbie question, but it's not a stupid question. 74 views and no one has any pointers?

mike nolan · From: Forest Hills, NY USA

It takes a lot of practice time to perfect those moves. You want the pedal change to be smooth and synchronized with the bar move.... so you hear the changes, but they blend and are not abrupt. If I think about it, I usually start the bar move and then begin slowly releasing the pedals almost immediately. You should try doing that move with no pedals, using a bar slant..... find the notes. Then try to mimic that sound with the pedals.

You might have a mechanical issue with the timing on the pulls.... on some guitars it can be difficult to get the pulls on 3 and 5 to start and stop at the same time, resulting in a slightly ragged transition.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

You are always going to hear the little weirdness that comes from raising or lowering a string by moving the bar and doing something with pedals at the same time that is contrary to the sounds of the bar movement. It's one of the characteristic sounds of the instrument.

Sometimes I wish there was some way to avoid it, and sometimes I think it enhances whatever it is I'm trying to do. Either way, it's something we just have to live with.
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Gary Cosden · From: Florida, USA

Depending on exactly what it is you are after it might help, at least some, to try:
1)3rd fret pedals A&B down, slide to
2)7th fret A pedal down
At least you are only coming off one pedal this way. In the end its a "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?" kind of question. Practice. There is no substitute.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

I practice different ways to do this slide, like letting off the pedals right before the slide for a different feel. From AB practice releasing the B pedal and sliding up one fret with A to a fourth interval. Going from AB to AF a fret higher is a similar move that you want to get smooth. Also practice going from fret 4 with A to fret 6 open. The rate of AB release to smoothly go from AB to open while sliding up 3 frets depends on how your pedals are setup regarding height and travel, so you need to experiment with your guitar. Same for half pedal A. They all vary somewhat. If you can let up on AB slowly, maintaining pitch with the bar sliding up one fret, youre halfway there. Wink

Clete

Dale Hansen · From: Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)

James Mayer · Posted 5 Dec 2011 3:00 pm

Thanks for the tips.

"James, you just need to relax a bit, cut yourself some slack, and refocus.
At the moment, you are intently focused on how badly that it sounds to your ear. As a result, you're getting frustrated, and allowing your own critical, unproductive, self-talk grind you into the dirt, and insult you like an Army drill Sergeant. "

Nah, I'm not that hard on myself on PSG. I fully expect to suck it up for a while. I just figured someone would say something like, "slowly release the pedals before sliding up to the 2" or "slid up then release with this lick here".

I haven't tried speeding it up, yet.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Same way you get to Carnegie Hall.
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Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

I'd suggest practicing a different move that hones the same skill.
Key of C, 8th fret, strings 4&5.
Slide down to 6 while adding A pedal, taking you to an implied C7. Do this at a speed that the G note doesn't move.
You'll more easily hear how to sync hands and feet.

My own $0.02
YMMV.

Ken, I got to Carnegie Hall in a bus. I fail to see the connection.
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Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

This is only an issue if you make the slide slowly. I realize a lot of players like to play that way. I am NOT one of those players. I hate that style of playing: slow slides into virtually every note or chord.

I've run across more than one other musician who makes fun of steel players that are constant sliders. They talk about always having to wait and hope that they make it to pitch.

Learn to make the slide quickly and precisely and you will sound better in my opinion. It takes a lot of practice to do this cleanly, but it's well worth the effort.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

Paul, I'd say that one should have the ability to do both. The slow slides have their place, but they have become overused.
Smooth and together. Fast or slow, the slide + pedal movement should run smooth and together.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

If he plays it on 3&5, I don't think he's lowering to G.
Bar slants?
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I'm a C6th kind of guy, but it seems like isolating it and getting each string right by itself would open a path to the compromise that's going to be in-between enough to satisfy. Tear it apart; reassemble; repeat; repeat....

John Peay · From: Cumming, Georgia USA

James,

As a beginner of not even a year yet, I struggle with this same thing. I found one of Mickey Adams' videos on this very topic:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Singlpilot#p/search/3/1RliEi7Bftw

It's a harmonized "C" scale on strings 5&8, check out the move going up from 3A to 6D(lowering E's) at about 3:45 on the vid, then he comes back down 6D to 3A at about 5:50. You can hear the pitch change going both ways, it's not perfect, especially going back down.

To me it sounds much better when speeded up...

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

James Mayer · Posted 6 Dec 2011 9:11 am

Hey guys, thanks a lot! I guess I already knew the answer (analyze and practice). Sometimes, it just feels like I might be practicing mistakes when there's a better way. The Mickey Adams video clearly demonstrates that the sound I'm hearing is just part of the game, but I'll probably devise a plan to approach from a different position, as Bob suggested, on a case by case basis.

By the way, I'm practicing on an 3X4 S6 tuned BEG#BEG#, with all of the standard changes that I usually see on E9 copedents for those strings. I might have an opportunity to buy an S10 at a good price soon, but that's for another thread.....

Also, I didn't mean to sound impatient in my second post. I was having one of those days that where I was practicing for hours, determined to jump a lot of hurdles. The tone in my head, while typing, was far less serious. I hope I'm not the subject of THIS thread.

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

James,
Theres often two or three ways to play the same thing. Practice all the ways you can find. The slide from 3AB to 6 on strings 3 and 5 can be done very smoothly and slowly without a bar slide using BC at fret 8 on 4 and 6. If you have a vertical lever lowering 5 you can use it (or half A) with pedal A on strings 8 and 5. There's also the traditional non-pedal way using bar slants.

Clete

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