intro's fills and endings

Jack Mattison · Post by **Jack Mattison** » 24 Nov 2011 3:03 pm

Happy Triptaphan to all you turkey eaters......... Are there any lessons on "Genaric" intros, fills, and endings???. By that I mean.... all I seem to find are lessons that zero in on stuff like.. Here's a fill or a ending or intro for stuff like... "Born to lose, swinging doors, for the good times, rose garden, and on and on.........". Stuff thats already written. I guess maybe I need a course on how to "Build" an intro, fill, and ending. I am playing on Sundays at my church...... And they do all the contempary Christion stuff. I can't use intros and fills ect. from country songs that have already been done. I find they don't fit. Of course I have only been playing for three years... so maybe I just don't know how to use whats been written already!!!. Maybe this is just a dumb post........and I just need to fiqure it out for myself, because I don't find anybody doing any lessons or tabs on the "New Contempary Christion music" Am I Wrong??......... Thanks for reading this....Hope someone can help........ Jack<><

Ed Brooks · Post by **Ed Brooks** » 24 Nov 2011 3:28 pm

Hey Jack,

I have a couple of Herby Wallace lessons, one is 24 intros and fills, the other is 100 licks and runs. I have found these really useful. First I learn the part as written. Then break them down, change them around, play it backwards & so on. I usually find several more parts that feel like mine.

Have fun,

Ed

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 24 Nov 2011 3:32 pm

Intros are often the melody, or notes, of the last 4 bars of the song. "She Thinks I Still Care", for instance. Just play that and you got an intro. It's a 1511. The important thing about fills is to play between the vocals, not over them. Endings can be anything, but many times the last thing you'd play (the ending to the ending) would be, in the key of C for instance, strings 4, 5 and 6 at the third fret and then the same strings with the A and B pedals down.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 24 Nov 2011 3:45 pm

I'd say you're making the transition from "How do I play this?" to "How do I create music?"
Easiest: Learn the melody from the last 4 bars, and play that with some simple embellishments. (You'll notice Cal ninjaed me with that one)

Less easy: take another intro using the same chord progression, change the phrasing to where it is hard to tell that's what you did.

Slightly less easy: just throw something together from your bag of licks. Enlarge your bag of licks by breaking up your longer licks into halves. This is hard to start to do because you're used to playing the whole thing.

Slightly less easy than that: Steal a phrase from somewhere else. Note: The classic Buddy Emmons intro to night life was actually lifted In 1 solid piece from John Coltrane

Hardest option: Get smacked upside the head with an inspiration completely unrelated to the song, that still fits.

If you have frequent success with the latter, then immediately start looking for studio work, because that is 1 rare and valuable skill.

Dale Tiemessen · Post by **Dale Tiemessen** » 24 Nov 2011 4:27 pm

Jeff Newman had a course. Just give me an Intro,
or something like that.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 24 Nov 2011 5:36 pm

I think Cal Sharp stated it most accurately.

An intro to any song, is an inherant part of THAT specific song; not some other song. As stated, the last four bars are an excellent place to look for the intro. It's easier in some instances than in others but the theory is much the same.

The tag at the end of a song likewise is an undeniable part of that specific song, not another.
It's like a ( ) to a song; with the melody contained in between.

Years ago we used use a 3 note pick-up with an immediate turn-around in order to bring it back to the first phrase of the vocal.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 24 Nov 2011 6:06 pm

Another thing about fills: if you play a 7th chord or a lick derived from same to kinda lead the singer from 1's to 4's and from 5's to 1's, then that's a good thing.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 24 Nov 2011 6:57 pm

Cal Sharp wrote:Another thing about fills: if you play a 7th chord or a lick derived from same to kinda lead the singer from 1's to 4's and from 5's to 1's, than that's a good thing.

Yep.... at least most of the time....... but sometimes you make a beautiful transition from the 1 to the 4 and the singer just stands there and looks at you.

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 24 Nov 2011 6:58 pm

When in doubt about an intro, I always think about Don Helms work with Hank. Stuff like "Your Cheating Heart", "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry", etc. Exactly what other, much more accomplished players have posted. Play the melody, or a stylistic derivative of the last 4 bars. It also helps if I remind myself that I'm not playing for a roomfull of steel guitarists.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 24 Nov 2011 7:07 pm

Rick Campbell wrote:

Cal Sharp wrote:
Another thing about fills: if you play a 7th chord or a lick derived from same to kinda lead the singer from 1's to 4's and from 5's to 1's, than that's a good thing.

Yep.... at least most of the time....... but sometimes you make a beautiful transition from the 1 to the 4 and the singer just stands there and looks at you.

You mean like this?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 24 Nov 2011 7:30 pm

As a general rule, I completely agree with Ray.
But there has been so many cool intros that come from breaking that rule.

Even that first one, about being from/for THAT SONG, which I totally endorse, was completely ignored by the Big E, when he raided "Honey" by John Coltrane (not, thank God, Bobby Goldsboro) for the classic intro to Night Life.

Speaking of Buddy, I don't hear the melody in his intro to Ray Price's "an Eye for an Eye (you can hear it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFj680v3 ... ata_player if you like)," but I do hear four bars o' awesome.

Ditto Lloyd on "Meanest Jukebox In Town"

Or those walkdowns that kick "Proud Mary" or "Tulsa Time."

While doing things by the book will always get something good, there's some cool stuff available by bending the rules.

I'd started trying to make some point besides being contrary, but I got bogged down in the details and fergot what it was.
I DID have something in mind besides being contrary, I swear.

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 24 Nov 2011 8:13 pm

Ricky Davis has a great course of just this thing , I'm sure it's still available .
Maybe Ricky will chime in .

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 24 Nov 2011 10:16 pm

LANE: Nothing I said was meant to be taken as 'set in concrete'. I was merely attempting to be helpful.

There are exceptions to every 'rule'. I support that veiw particularly in music.

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 25 Nov 2011 12:19 am

I Played gospel lead guitar for many years before I switched over to PSG but I won’t bore you with the details.
One of my favorite tricks in gospel when we had to back up a gospel artist and all I would have was the title, time, key and no glue how the song really went was to use an intro that my father would refer to as throwing up a prayer.
The trick was using Diminished Chords for the intro. I learned early on the Diminished Chord worked well in gospel for cool smooth intros, passing chords and endings. It is not limited to gospel. I hear it in a lot genres,

I found this on youtube which is pretty much the way I used it.
Click Here

Here is a good example of diminished chords possibilities all through this song, in the intro, fills and ending. Not gospel.
Click Here Jeff tabbed this out in one of his Woodsheds.

Jeff Newman’ s “Life’s Railway to Heaven” has a Diminished Chord intro.
I can’t post it here. I don’t have permission. Jeff tabbed this also. I use to play it in church a lot.

Landon Roberson · Post by **Landon Roberson** » 25 Nov 2011 5:06 am

Jack this is exactly where I am at in my playing. I am also starting to play in my church on the congregational hymns and am looking for fills and chord runs that will work in any key for any song. Thanks for your post.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 25 Nov 2011 7:43 am

Wing it! You'll have more fun!

Jack Mattison · Post by **Jack Mattison** » 25 Nov 2011 9:40 am

Thanks all for your input. It Helps...... Have a great week........ Jack<><

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 25 Nov 2011 9:54 am

Landon.......you've joined the elete set with Bo and others. It sure can't hurt the neighborhood.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 25 Nov 2011 9:50 pm

Bo doesn't get ask to play in church much now days.
Ray, I thought he would get more respect when he start dressing better. Maybe those Diminished Chords of his are not working for him.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Nov 2011 10:05 pm

Ray, you WERE being helpful. That's why I said I wished I could recall my motivation that was other than just contrariness. Heck, for all I know, I was just urging outside-the-box thinking.
But yeah, most intros do derive from the melody. Always a good place to look

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 26 Nov 2011 3:55 pm

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=208820

Tim Victor · Post by **Tim Victor** » 27 Nov 2011 5:05 pm

Lane Gray wrote:As a general rule, I completely agree with Ray.
But there has been so many cool intros that come from breaking that rule.

Reminds me of the story from Standing In the Shadows of Motown about recording the Mary Wells song, "My Guy." They were half an hour from quitting after a long day and had run out of ideas for how to start it. The house band guys all worked after hours in nightclubs backing up whichever pop singers were coming through Detroit and they had to know the whole hit parade, so they just kicked off "Canadian Sunset." ("Once I was alone/so lonely and then...") figuring that the producer wouldn't recognize it. He (Smokey Robinson) was making money than anyone besides Barry Gordy himself and he didn't have to moonlight in nightclubs. They were right, and that's just how the song goes now.

Herby Wallace · Post by **Herby Wallace** » 28 Nov 2011 3:40 pm

My two courses that were mentioned earlier in this topic, do offer quite a few possibilities. HWP-5001 100 Runs & Licks and HWP-4001 25 Intros & Turnarounds. Most of these are what I call stock runs and licks and stock intros that will work on many songs and you can, of course, always alter them if needed to fit a particular song.

Herby Wallace

Jack Mattison · Post by **Jack Mattison** » 28 Nov 2011 4:43 pm

Thanks again..... I started playing pedal steel almost 4yrs ago. At that time I orderd..... Lessons from Jeff Newman, Herby Wallace, Billy Cooper. Big E, Got alot of stuff from here. Also did a seminar with Doug Jernigan. Also some of you sent me things to work on [THANKS]. Having said all this, you would think I had enough material to keep me busy for some time to come.....And you would be right. All the material I have has got me to the point from beginer to intermediate. And to where I can play with the Worship team at my church. They comment when I take my steel home to work on stuff.... "When are you going to bring it back? We miss it!". That makes me feel like I have done something right..... One of you said to "Just wing it". Thats what I have been doing playing with the worship team, and its really fun. So looking through all the stuff I bought, I ran across some material that I had not really got into. DeWitt scotts "Back-up Behind the singer" Good stuff!!! Also Mr Herby Wallace someone said to check out your "100 Licks" and also you "Intros and endings" More "Stuff to order". It is really Fun learning this complecated but wonderful intruament. Thanks once again all of you on this forum who have helped me through the last 4yrs. Its been a pleasure........... Jack<><

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 28 Nov 2011 5:25 pm

And to where I can play with the Worship team at my church.

Gene O'Neal, who worked with the only n-n-n-n-name not on my list. All-right, mighty fine! Was out on the road driving all night and happened upon a little country church nestled in a verdant dale come sunrise one glorious Sunday and heard music, so he pulled in, took his steel in and played with the band for the rest of the service. He didn't even ask, he just charged in, set up and played the devil out of that steel guitar, bringing joy to the hearts of all with his intros, fills and endings.

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intro's fills and endings

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