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Nut/Bridge Query

Posted: 17 Oct 2011 9:52 am
by Mike Dexter
I have an 8 string lap steel. The nut appears to be aluminium, so does the bridge. Aluminium being a poor conductor of sound. Would changing both to bone or brass enhance the sound, even though it is an electric instrument? What material are your lap (or pedal) steels made from?

Posted: 17 Oct 2011 12:08 pm
by Jason Hull
:alien:

Posted: 17 Oct 2011 12:56 pm
by Jim Konrad
2nd what Jason said...

Aluminum is one of the best for sound transfer...

Posted: 17 Oct 2011 1:40 pm
by Ron Whitfield
+3
But it's your ears that make the decision.

Posted: 17 Oct 2011 6:47 pm
by Bill Creller
X4.....I would think that aluminum would be as good as bakelite, as used on Ricks etc.....

Posted: 17 Oct 2011 11:29 pm
by Steve Ahola
I've made some replacement nuts with steel and to my ears the open strings sound brighter than the notes played with a bar (especially with pull-offs). IMO aluminum is more neutral- it will sound as you want it to sound (mellow or bright or whatever). And it is much easier to work with than hot rolled steel.

Posted: 18 Oct 2011 10:03 am
by chas smith
The Fender Stringmaster uses steel for the nut and bridge. I prefer titanium 6-4, silicon bronze or aluminum 6061 T-6. I stay away from "low end" stainless steel like the 304 and 303 alloys, although the "high end" alloys like Inconel 625 and 718 are nice. Inconel is a nickel based alloy.

Nut Bridge Query

Posted: 18 Oct 2011 11:46 am
by Mike Dexter
Many thanks everybody for replying to my topic. I'm surprised that aluminium seems to be the most popular for nut & bridge material. I play banjo & guitar and almost all banjo/guitar nuts are made of bone (or synthetic material similar) & bridges made of wood/metal---to my knowledge never aluminium--which I thought was a poor conductor of sound. Perhaps the nature of the electric steel lends itself to aluminium---your thoughts on that?
I know of banjo players whose banjos have aluminium parts (on the hoop) change the parts to brass for better sound transmission-also a brass tailpiece enhances the sound. No aluminium parts are found on the more expensive banjo's. There must be a reason for that.

Posted: 18 Oct 2011 11:47 am
by William Lake
Didja ever wonder why bells are made of brass and not aluminum?

Posted: 18 Oct 2011 1:18 pm
by Jason Hull
:alien:

Posted: 18 Oct 2011 4:30 pm
by Rick Aiello
I find a bridge of silicone bronze a tad superior ...

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To a cast aluminum bridge ...

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Ditto with the nut ...

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But the weight ... 45 lbs vs 15 lbs ... I guess it depends on your leg strength and circulation ... :\

And having it tightly attached ... Is a biggie ;-) :lol: :mrgreen:

Posted: 18 Oct 2011 4:39 pm
by Tom Pettingill
William Lake wrote:Didja ever wonder why bells are made of brass and not aluminum?
Actually the best bells are made of bronze, high end cymbals, and even some top of the line saxophones are made of bronze too.
I've used bronze for bridge saddles and like the rich timber it can add to the tone.

Like Chas mentioned, a good quality aluminum works well, though I generally only use it as a bridge material. It has a balanced overall tone to it and a proven track record in the steel guitar world.

For nuts, I'm partial to bone or Corian. If I'm doing a nut for a multi bender steel, I like Derilin as it has a good neutral tone and is slippery as snot when polished.

Posted: 18 Oct 2011 4:43 pm
by Steve Ahola
I look at the lap steel as a complete package. The material used for the nut and bridge will affect the tone and sustain. For a vintage steel, the composition of the nut and bridge could be every bit as important as the wood or other material used for the body, or the pickup. If everything works well together "upgrading" the nut or bridge will not necessarily be an improvement.

IMO on a Rogue EA-3 or a Morrell steel, replacing the cheap plastic nut with ANYTHING would be an improvement. (Although one of my vintage Supros has a plastic bridge that sounds great, so plastic isn't necessarily bad, just the really cheap stuff.)

Steve

Posted: 19 Oct 2011 11:39 am
by chas smith
This guitar, a 7-string bass steel, is machined from 6061-T6 aluminum billet which has silicon as part of the alloy. To my ears, silicon makes the alloy more musical, as opposed to zinc which is found in 2024 aluminum. Zinc is also in brass, as opposed to silicon bronze and of course, it's in pot metal. Remember the Super Pro fingers? The bridge on this guitar is titanium 6-4.
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This is the keyhead of Jr Blue, a 6-string bass with pickups on both ends of the guitar. Jr Blue is machined from 7075 T8 aerospace aluminum billet, thank you Lockheed. The bridge is a high end stainless steel.
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The nut and the bridge on the bass neck of Guitarzilla2 are titanium 6-4
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The bridge and the 3 nuts on Guitarzilla are silicon bronze.
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The nut on my titanium tube lap steel is, you guessed it, titanium.
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And the bridge on my E-Harp, that has the Lollar Stringmaster pickups is titanium.
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Posted: 19 Oct 2011 5:47 pm
by Bill Creller
Some fantastic stuff there !! :D

Posted: 21 Oct 2011 6:56 am
by Jay Seibert
Chas... simply beautiful workmanship! Definitely "the art of steel guitar".

Internet source for 6061 aluminum angle

Posted: 24 Oct 2011 3:00 pm
by Steve Ahola
With all of the positive comments about aluminum in this thread I decided to look for 1/2" x 1/2" x 1/8" aluminum angle on the internet because I haven't found that size in the hardware store.

I did find several sources- even Amazon.com- but the shipping charge was more than the metal and I really didn't want to deal with 6 foot lengths. And then I found Stock Car Steel out of North Carolina- they have a good selection of 6061 aluminum angle and bar which they sell by the foot at reasonable prices. The minimum freight charge starts around $16, but I figured that I might as well stock up on all of the sizes I expect to use for my various projects so I put together a $40 order weighing 12 pounds and the freight charge was $21.54. (I had all of the pieces cut to 3' but I saw that the freight charge was basically the same whether you ordered 3' or 6' lengths.)

http://www.stockcarsteel.com

Steve

P.S. If someone knows of a source with a smaller minimum freight charge please share it with us if you please.

Posted: 24 Oct 2011 9:01 pm
by chas smith
All of the aluminum angle I've seen is 6063 T52, which is not as strong, hard or stiff as 6061 T6. If you live in Concord, there has to be an aluminum supplier near you. You could probably drive over and pick up something there. In my neighborhood, Industrial Metal Supply or Tuch Metals always have drop-offs for cheap.