question about Stringmaster-style Fender steel tone

John Groover McDuffie · Post by **John Groover McDuffie** » 3 Oct 2011 1:33 pm

Do the two-pickup Fender steels like the Stringmaster, Deluxe 6 and Deluxe 8 sound at all like a Strat in the #2 "notch" position?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 3 Oct 2011 1:56 pm

I doubt it.

John Groover McDuffie · Post by **John Groover McDuffie** » 3 Oct 2011 3:38 pm

I was kind of looking for experience rather than conjecture, but thanks for the $0.02.

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 3 Oct 2011 4:14 pm

Not at all. It's more like a variable coil-tap. Blended 50/50, it's got a smooth humbucker feel. Dialed 100% either way, you get a thinner single coil tone. Mine stays at 65% bridge & 35% neck.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 3 Oct 2011 7:05 pm

John:

The "quacky" notch positions on the Fender Strats were not part of Leo's original design; the guitars came with a three position switch to select the individual pickups and Fender didn't started using the 5 position switches until the 70's. Although guitarists had been jamming the switch to get the notch positions much earlier than that, and guitar techs had been modifying the 3 position switches.

I didn't really notice hearing the Strat notched position until Eric Clapton recorded Badge with Cream (although it sounds like he might have had his guitar tech wire up all 3 pickups together which IMO gives you a super notched sound).

Steve Ahola

P.S. I think that if the Stringmasters and Deluxes had gotten that notched Strat sound Leo would have done something about it. Just my opinion on that...

Robert Jenkins · Post by **Robert Jenkins** » 3 Oct 2011 7:14 pm

Steve- not to pick nits, but I don't think Clapton recorded with a Stratocaster till "Layla..." w/ Derek and the Dominoes.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 3 Oct 2011 7:37 pm

I guess I'm hearing things different... but I've always thought that the Stringmaster has a tone somewhat similar to the "quack" of a Stratocaster. To my ear the Stringmaster has a slightly out of phase tone, thin and sweet, and if the player tweaks the blend control the guitar can sound very Strat-like IMO.

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » 4 Oct 2011 5:41 am

Robert Jette wrote:Not at all. It's more like a variable coil-tap. Blended 50/50, it's got a smooth humbucker feel. Dialed 100% either way, you get a thinner single coil tone. Mine stays at 65% bridge & 35% neck.

The original Stringmaster blend circuit is indeed wired as a variable coil tap. It isn't a true blend circuit in that there's no position where you can get the neck pickup alone or more neck than bridge. The 2 pickups act in a way similar to the 2 coils in a humbucker - if one is reverse wound/reverse polarity. The Stringmaster blend circuit essentially turns the neck pickup off gradually. It's reductive in nature, though in practice, the default is to use the bridge pickup primarily and "add in" some neck pickup to make the tone fuller.

Stringmaster pickups are wired in series and Strat and Tele pickups are wired in parallel through the 3 or 5 way switch. It's really a different effect. I've wired the pickups on a couple of my steels with a 5 way rotary switch to achieve different series/parallel combinations and the sound was pretty nice. In the end, though, the Tele style switching wasn't really very satisfying and I've settled on a series-wired true blend circuit that allows a full range of tone possibilities from all neck to all bridge with all the subtle variations in between.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 4 Oct 2011 6:50 am

The early Stringmasters didn't have a blend knob.

Geoff Cline · Post by **Geoff Cline** » 4 Oct 2011 7:45 am

My only direct experience is with my '53 D-8...no blend knob and no "in-between" Strat tone(s). GREAT tones...just not that. You can get close with a "cocked" wah pedal or other tone shaping effects boxes.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 4 Oct 2011 10:44 am

Robert Jenkins wrote:Steve- not to pick nits, but I don't think Clapton recorded with a Stratocaster till "Layla..." w/ Derek and the Dominoes.

With all of the processing on "Badge" I may be wrong about that but you could hear the "strat quack" all over the first Eric Clapton album recorded with the Delaney and Bonnie and Friends gang between November 1969 and January 1970.

A lot of recordings use guitars not normally associated with the guitarists. Like Peter Green and his notorious Les Paul with the reversed neck pickup- one story I heard was that he used an ES345 for most his studio recordings with Fleetwood Mac.

Steve

Benjamin Franz · Post by **Benjamin Franz** » 4 Oct 2011 3:39 pm

John Allison wrote:
I've settled on a series-wired true blend circuit that allows a full range of tone possibilities from all neck to all bridge with all the subtle variations in between.

Hey John, do you have a wiring diagram for your set up? I'm keen to experiment with a similar thing. Also, which pot did you use for your blend?

Robert Jette · Post by **Robert Jette** » 4 Oct 2011 4:03 pm

Thanks for clearing that up John. I thought it was truly an neck/bridge on/off blend. What an interesting concept. To your knowledge, did Fender (or anyone else) ever employ this on a "regular" guitar?

Mitch Crane · Post by **Mitch Crane** » 4 Oct 2011 5:36 pm

What year was the blend knob added to the Stringmaster ?

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 4 Oct 2011 6:39 pm

What year was the blend knob added to the Stringmaster ?

Probably around 1954 to 55. The guitar was introduced in 1953 and the earliest ones didn't have a blend knob.

Peter den Hartogh · Post by **Peter den Hartogh** » 4 Oct 2011 10:46 pm

Forum member Kay Das plays a Stratocaster like a lap steel.
It does not sound like a Stringmaster at all.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 Oct 2011 6:25 am

This one doesn't sound like a Stringmaster:

admin · Post by **b0b** » 5 Oct 2011 7:38 am

My Stringmaster doesn't sound like a Strat at all. I'm sure that the 8-string pickups have a different impedance. The way it's wired, there's no equivalent of the "both full on" sound of the Strat's 3 position switch.

Plus I play it with a bar.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 5 Oct 2011 9:50 am

Jason Lollar's Stringmaster repros have a DC resistance of 8.6K which is higher than a typical vintage strat pickup (maybe 6.4 to 7.6k). More important with the two pickups connected in series rather than parallel the sound is going to be much fuller. It was interesting to learn here that the blend control only adds the neck pickup to the bridge pickup.

I was wondering- do the two pickup Deluxes also have a blend control? I know absolutely nothing about either steel, but I don't think I ever heard any "quacky" steel guitar in 50's recordings.

Steve

Hugh Holstein · Post by **Hugh Holstein** » 5 Oct 2011 4:10 pm

Yes, Deluxe 8 and 6's have the blend control.

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 6 Oct 2011 4:37 am

I'm with Doug, I think the Stringmaster has a sound similar to a Strat, with the blend control in a certain position. At least mine does, to my ears. Not just like the in between Strat sound, but along those lines. The choice of amp and speakers would have some effect too...Jerry

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 6 Oct 2011 7:22 am

I think the Stringmaster has a sound similar to a Strat, with the blend control in a certain position. At least mine does, to my ears. Not just like the in between Strat sound, but along those lines.

Yes, that's what I hear too, especially when recording with the Stringmaster. The tone is not exactly like a Strat, but it has similar characteristics. To me it's a thin, hollow, almost out of phase sound, a Fender sound. No other brand of steel guitar has that sound IMO.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 7 Oct 2011 11:12 pm

After reading through this thread I think it would be interesting to wire up a Stringmaster style in-series blend control in a Strat. I will post my results (unless it is a total wash

).

Steve

Tom Pettingill · Post by **Tom Pettingill** » 8 Oct 2011 8:11 am

That would be a cool experiment Steve ... I'll bet it ends up sounding pretty good.

Laurence Pangaro · Post by **Laurence Pangaro** » 8 Oct 2011 8:41 am

Anybody ever tried a Stringmaster style wiring with non-Stringmaster style pickups or even a mix of types (e.g. maybe two Console Grand pickups or one Lollar Chicago Steel with a Stringmaster pickup)? Would something like this be interesting?

ciao,
LP