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Topic: 8 vs 10 string |
Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2011 9:19 am |
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hopefully getting ready to make a decision soon on a console steel i'm having built and i just cant make the call on 8 string vs 10 string necks.
i'm wondering why the top steelers of the "golden age" never went to 10 although they were being made by gibson, epiphone, and rickenbacher, so they were surely aware of them and most had the harmonic knowledge to realize the advantage of 2 extra notes - but yet most stuck with 8 strings (in a t-8 form). now most of the major non-pedal players like Reese, Billy, Morrell, Black, etc are going the 10(+) route - but in a single neck.
so what disadvantage might there be for 10 strings. the neck i "need" 10 for i feel is the E13 having sort of a hybrid Morrell tuning right now on the 8 string -
l-h lowE - D - F# - G# - B - A - C# - E - F#
i like having the F# on top and the low E comes in more handy than i once thought - but its not something i cant get around by retuning right now. living in the south, you have to play Hank tunes in a honky tonk setting and its easy to get the Helms E6 from here. this tuning also has some easy tetrachord patterns for single line work - nothing more than 1 fret away.
any thoughts?
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 6 Sep 2011 10:17 am
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My next steel will be a 10, although I only need 9 strings. But it is something I desperately want.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Jerome Hawkes
From:
Fayetteville, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2011 1:13 pm
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yeah - to me, 9 is perfect - i've given up the search for a sho-bud D-9 though and just having Todd build me one.
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'65 Sho-Bud D-10 Permanent • '54 Fender Dual-8 • Clinesmith T-8 • '38 Ric Bakelite • '92 Emmons D-10 Legrande II |
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Chris Watkins
From:
Eastern North Carolina
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Posted 6 Sep 2011 2:24 pm Gibson 10 String
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Heres a shot of my 1950 Gibson 10 Century , man when I got it I think I let everything else go,  Mark Roders steel & dobro Stands are truly amazing as well!Thanks Mike for giving his website! :as you can I left the door open if you want to come in and play it 
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 6 Sep 2011 3:52 pm
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One of a kind Westwind T9 - three 9 String Necks with keyless tuners.
— with Front neck is E13 tuning, middle neck is A6 tuning and back neck is C6 tuning
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 6 Sep 2011 5:05 pm Re: 8 vs 10 string
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| Jerome Hawkes wrote: |
| i'm wondering why the top steelers of the "golden age" never went to 10 although they were being made |
It reminds me of when I desperately wanted a 6-string electric bass. I finally got one but it seemed I really only ever played 3 of the strings, E-A-D. 
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 4:55 am
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I played 6 string lap for many many years (since 1960) Several years ago went to 8 strings but kept my original 6 string tuning and just added two lower notes... Best thing I ever did!
Then about two years ago I got the hairbrained idea to add two more strings on top to make 10 total.
I made a new steel with ten strings and I experimented with lots of intervals and finally tried two "re-entrant" notes, and wow that was it!
If you have ever played E9th pedal steel, you are already familiar with "re-entrant" strings, and the fact that strings 1 and 2 are lower in pitch than your 3rd string.
By using other notes (in between) the notes of my very familiar center six, I can get all kinds of cool chords and chromatic licks, while still retaining all of my arrangements on the original center six strings.
I may really take the plunge and try making a 12 string, adding one more re-entrant string on top and one more low note on the bottom...
IMHO 10 are better than 8!
Dom
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Hal Braun
From:
Eustis, Florida, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 6:17 am
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I recently ordered a D-8 "console" from Williams as a custom guitar (pics later this week!)
I went with 8 strings since I wanted a larger string spacing (3/8" at the bridge). This has been a problem for me with trying to learn pedal steel, and I did not want to have that issue with a non-pedal steel.
Not sure, but my feeling is that 10 (or more) strings would have to compress that spacing, which affects slants, my big clumsy hands, etc.. or get a pretty wide fret board going.. but that is just my personal issue. I hear a ton of great music coming from a lot of 6 strings and am pretty sure I will spend the rest of my life figuring out how to make the most of 8.. |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 9:55 am Re: 8 vs 10 string
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| Twayn Williams wrote: |
It reminds me of when I desperately wanted a 6-string electric bass. I finally got one but it seemed I really only ever played 3 of the strings, E-A-D. |
LOL! |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 10:02 am
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| to me the beauty of a non-pedal steel is the simplicity. if you want 10 strings or more you might as well get into pedal steels. |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 12:02 pm
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| Quote: |
chris ivey Posted: 7 Sep 2011 10:02 am Post subject:
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to me the beauty of a non-pedal steel is the simplicity. if you want 10 strings or more you might as well get into pedal steels.
Chris,
I already do play pedal steel,(but much less than Lap steel)
For my many solo gigs, the 10 string lap is much better, I can set up in a few minutes, when the pedal steel would take much longer, not to mention the greater weight of and loading unloading from my van.
When I am playing in a band situation, where there is a larger stage, and a PA system to set up, as well as a drummer whom I figure has about as much setup as I do, then I bring the Pedal Steel as well as the lap.
One more thing is: That I tend to play the pedal steel in more of a "country" style, and the lap lends itself more Jazz, rock and the many standards that I play solo.
Dom |
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Chris Watkins
From:
Eastern North Carolina
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Posted 7 Sep 2011 12:29 pm 10 strings
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Why does a 10 string need to be pedal? I think its up to the player, I prefer 4 string bass, if I had to play one , however an old bandmate played 5 string & on some songs 6 as well as fretless, very talented & versitle :  6,7,8,10 ITS WHATS ONES PREFERENCE IS, Just listen to any TOM Morrell tape, 10 string non pedal at its finest! |
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Edward Meisse
From:
Santa Rosa, California, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2011 4:12 pm
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Reece Anderson's 12 string tuning sure sounds great when he plays it. The CD is available here on the forum. From high to low, he tunes it (D-B)-G-E-C-A-G-E-C-A-F-D. The D and B strings are re-entrant strings. I'm tempted by the MSA 12 string. But I have gone to a C6 pedal guitar. And for the time being, I'm thinking that if I can master the mechanics of it, I'm going to stay with it. It just makes everything so much easier....except tuning.
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Amor vincit omnia |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 11 Sep 2011 1:52 am 12 string
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I use that tuning, and it's versatile. You have your basic 8 string set-upon the "inside" and limitless possibilities on the "outside" with the addition of strings 1,2, 11,12.
Major and minor 7ths & 9ths, plus slash chords, and more !
A close inspection will reveal your basic C6 PSG, with 5 ped & 2kl, using minimul slants.
Now....if only I could sound like Reece !! 
Check out youtube for his "On Green Dolophin St" !!
If I used a 10 string, I'd look at Hall of Famer, Billy Robinson's copedant,& website.
PS: Greg Cutshaw's website is very helpful, with tabs and info for both 12 string non-pedal, and PSG. |
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Denny Turner
From:
Oahu, Hawaii USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2011 2:55 am
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I played an 8-8-10 Rick Console 500 (810) for a number of years and loved it. One son got sick, bills came in, and my soul wept as the Ric left the house with a happy and deserving young man.
The inside / closest neck was 10 strings, tuned to Tom Morrels E13, with G# on top. Without B on top it allowed one more note on the bottom. I found that moving upscale / up-neck on the high strings just like on a 6 stringer, was MUCH easier than moving downscale / down-neck past only 8 strings, but very easy and intuitive with having strings 9 and 10.
Actually I would like to have a 12 string some day ....none too soon; Pocket's pennies in the wishing well. The modal math in a full diatonic 12 string tuning is very exciting to me, and no 12 stringer to play it on. I wouldn't have to leave a 4 or 5 fret box to get most everything west of Rome and east of Kalalau Kauai, ....except for register and timbre.
FWIW. Another pennie in the wishing well.
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Aloha,
Denny T~
http://www.dennysguitars.com/
Please help support humanity:
http://www.redcross.org/en/aboutus |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 12 Sep 2011 8:00 am cash
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I too, am strapped for cash,(medical bills, etc.) so.....
I built my own 12 stringer. I don't have anything NEAR the skills, of many of the Craftsmen here, but it's functional, and stays in tune.
Perhaps you can make due, with something like that, until you've saved enough for your "Super Slide" !
(my dream guitar)
I'm sure there are many here, including mysef, who can give you input on a homehade axe
Good luck
Rick |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Steve Green
From:
Gulfport, MS, USA
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Barney Roach
From:
Del Mar, California, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2011 8:14 pm
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Very cool thread. Reading these- many
varied and seemingly valid reasons for
*needing* more than 6 strings.
After two years now of messing around, a single
6 string in either C6 or open E is still a challenge for this guitar & bass player- but man
I love lap Steels!
Thank you all that have posted so far for the insight!
Barney |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 13 Sep 2011 3:08 am first time plank
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Dom,
right now I'm in the process of re-finishing, and redesigning a little, but I'll post a pic soon.
Originally, I wanted to make a "practice board", and it evloved into this:
Basically, it's 2 maple planks, glued and screwed together, making it 2x6. Strings thru body, Sho-Bud fretboard,(Tom Bradshaw) Wallace TT pup,(forumite) nut and bridge are the same,(BSG steel guitars),& I used zither pins for tuning keys, guitar tone,&volume,pots @250ohms and end jack(stu-mac)
I had originally used a pup from an old MSA PSG Super Sustain, but I prefer the Wallace, for this project.
It stays in tune,and sounds good, just needs a little tweaking cosmetically. This is my 1st attempt at this, so I recognize a few design flaws, but I will work it out.
Rick |
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