New guy from Minnesota

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 12 Sep 2011 3:21 pm

Howdy, nice to meet you all. I'm Rick, I'm 44, and I'm a guitar player who thinks it would be fun to play Pedal Steel. Ha! Bet you've never heard that one before.

Well, historically I've been into all kinds of stuff from Beatles to the Grateful Dead to Bluegrass music. I actually won our State Fair flatpicking guitar contest back in 2006 but that was before the competition got ALOT better and I don't even compete anymore. I mostly play my Tele these days. Been in a couple of country bands and right now I'm in a 60s/70s soul/funk band if you can believe that. But I'm wrapping that up in a couple of months and then I'm gonna have LOTS of time on my hands to just diddle.

So... to be honest I consider the Pedal Steel just about the most beautiful sounding instrument I've ever heard and am feeling up for the challenge. I've played a bit of lap steel before, so I know a little bit about what's going on but I'm quite certain I'm getting in over my head. Oh well, I'm in no big hurry to be an expert or anything, just want to have fun learning and not expect miracles.

So I've been reading a multitude of threads on which steel to start with and I've kinda got it narrowed down to looking for a Carter Starter or saving a little more for a Stage One. But then I've also thought maybe I could spend less and find a used Sho-Bud Maverick? Appreciate and advice on that one.

Also, a question about amps. There's a Peavey Special 130 on CL for $150, and a Bandit 65 for $100. I'm thinking I probably don't need the 130 and could get away with the 65. I'm also wondering if the 65 would be better for playing at lower volumes, better tone?

anyway, I'm done rambling for now.

Rick

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 12 Sep 2011 3:51 pm

STAGE ONE

Better built than the Starter and has enough knee levers (the Maverick only has 1)

Delvin Morgan · Post by **Delvin Morgan** » 12 Sep 2011 4:02 pm

Go see Bill Rudolph, and see the new Williams. You won't be disappoited.

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 12 Sep 2011 4:46 pm

Delvin Morgan wrote:Go see Bill Rudolph, and see the new Williams. You won't be disappoited.

Thanks. Who is Bill Rudolph and where can I find him?

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 12 Sep 2011 4:51 pm

Rick Larson wrote:
Delvin Morgan wrote:Go see Bill Rudolph, and see the new Williams. You won't be disappoited.
Thanks. Who is Bill Rudolph and where can I find him?

Please disregard, I Googled him up and found him. Looks like some nice steels, I guess, but probably not anything to start with. Does he have a starter Steel I should talk to him about?

Chris Buchanan · Post by **Chris Buchanan** » 12 Sep 2011 4:52 pm

Hey Rick. Where in Minnesota are you? I used to live in South Minneapolis, now I'm in Western Illinois. Anyway, I would stay away from the Carter Starter. Not that it's a bad guitar, but if you're already a musician you'll need something better. The Stage One might be better for you. As for amps, I think the 65 is a good choice. Put that extra $50 toward the guitar. Bon Voyage.

Bob August · Post by **Bob August** » 12 Sep 2011 6:09 pm

Rick,

I started out on the PS a couple of years ago. I have played guitar for over 30 years and still do but I was always interested in the PS and find their sound really beautiful. Just like you, I wanted to get a starter model for as little as possible in order to find out if I would like it and or stick with it. I got an old Sho Bud Maverick; the early model.

It is a great sounding little unit but here is the deal with the less expensive student models like this, they are short. The legs are not adjustable and they are not like professional models so lift kits don’t work on these unless you can get really creative. The lack of knee levers is also pretty limiting (the Maverick has one) once you get better at it.

I think having some musicianship under your belt already is going to make you sail through the beginner stage and you will be wanting to have something nicer. Going the student route cost me a little more because I ended up buying a professional model PS within 2 years. I should have just purchased the better instrument to begin with.

I found this experience to be just like starting out on guitar with a cheapo guitar. It is a start but the whole time you have it you never get the reward of hearing yourself actually sound good and you are always lusting after something better. Unless you are just experiencing a passing fancy, I would get a better guitar.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 12 Sep 2011 7:56 pm

You don't need a special amp for pedalsteel. Whatever you use with your tele will be fine. Spend that money on a better steel. Go talk to Bill Roudolph just to find out what a steel guitar is. He is a good guy and won't try to sell you anything. There are reasons why it is foolish to go super cheap with pedalsteel. You will not gain an understanding of it from the internet.

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 13 Sep 2011 4:24 am

Bob Hoffnar wrote:You don't need a special amp for pedalsteel. Whatever you use with your tele will be fine. Spend that money on a better steel. Go talk to Bill Roudolph just to find out what a steel guitar is. He is a good guy and won't try to sell you anything. There are reasons why it is foolish to go super cheap with pedalsteel. You will not gain an understanding of it from the internet.

I play through a Vox AC15C1 tube amp. I really like how it sounds with the Tele but wasn't so sure about a steel.

Brian McGaughey · Post by **Brian McGaughey** » 13 Sep 2011 6:04 am

Rick,

You'll find plenty of opinions here, I'll tell you what worked for me.

I've been playing pedal steel for 5 years now. I bought a mid 70s built MSA S10 guitar for about $500. I added a knee lever to make the guitar 3 pedal/3 knees at a cost of about $150. The guitar sounded great, but did require a minimum of mechanical maintenance along the way.

This guitar served me well for 3 years, then I sold it for $800 shipped to US address.

Since your not in a hurry, do your homework and look around. What worked for me was a used pro MSA guitar. Most will agree these are a good value in the used market.

Many here will tell you to skip the Mavericks and Carter Starters and make sure to have a minimum of 3 pedals/4 knees. As an experienced guitarist you'll grow into the changes no problem.

Earl Blake · Post by **Earl Blake** » 13 Sep 2011 7:17 am

Hey Rick,
Where in MN are you. I live in Prior Lake. You should stop over sometime and I'll give you a run down. You can even try my Mullen out. I started on a Maverick. Lasted 6 weeks and I almost quit. First time I played the Mullen...I was improving 10 fold. I can even point you in the direction of some instructors.

Earl

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 13 Sep 2011 7:45 am

Earl Blake wrote:Hey Rick,
Where in MN are you. I live in Prior Lake. You should stop over sometime and I'll give you a run down. You can even try my Mullen out. I started on a Maverick. Lasted 6 weeks and I almost quit. First time I played the Mullen...I was improving 10 fold. I can even point you in the direction of some instructors.

Earl

Earl, I sent you a PM.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 13 Sep 2011 8:30 am

The Vox amp will be fine for getting started. It will sound better than the amps you mentioned at lower volume levels anyway. Many steel players including myself use low low wattage tube amps for home and recording.

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 13 Sep 2011 9:00 am

Bob Hoffnar wrote:The Vox amp will be fine for getting started. It will sound better than the amps you mentioned at lower volume levels anyway. Many steel players including myself use low low wattage tube amps for home and recording.

I have Vox Pathfinder 15R solid state amp that I use at home, and I've actually thought about just selling the AC15 because this little amp sounds so good. Best $50 I've ever spent on Craiglist.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 13 Sep 2011 12:08 pm

The Carter Starter will just get you started. Then once you're fully addicted you'll want a better guitar. Since you already play music this is gonna happen sooner than later! If you do get a Starter, get some clamps or grips to reinforce the LKL. It can bend very easily and may distract you from playing it. Whatever you play your Tele thru will work with steel to start out with. Add the amp money to the steel money and spend a little more on a used pro level Carter or other brand. It has never been a better time to buy a used steel, and you'll likely get much more for your money. Oh, and welcome to the club!

Clete

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 13 Sep 2011 12:41 pm

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm really considering the Stage One, mainly for affordability. I see it also has 3 pedals and 4 knee levers. Is there any reason why this wouldn't be a good one to start with?

Delvin Morgan · Post by **Delvin Morgan** » 13 Sep 2011 2:36 pm

I've been hearing good things about the Stage One. Go for it, have fun.

Rick Winfield · Post by **Rick Winfield** » 14 Sep 2011 8:18 am

here's another IMHO:
Find a "used Pro model" MSA, with at least
3 pedals & 4 levers, and
it'll keep you busy for a long time.
There's some good buys on the forum for these guitars.

E9th
From a guitar players point of view:
5 of your 10 strings are like an open E , minus bass note E
Open= E
AB peds = A
B ped+ E lever = B7
BC peds = F#m
A ped= C# m

So...that's the most basic, I,IV,V7,ii,vi

Good luck, and remember in those frustrating moments, practice & enjoy
Rick

Marc Orleans · Post by **Marc Orleans** » 14 Sep 2011 8:19 am

I think having some musicianship under your belt already is going to make you sail through the beginner stage and you will be wanting to have something nicer. Going the student route cost me a little more because I ended up buying a professional model PS within 2 years. I should have just purchased the better instrument to begin with.

I found this experience to be just like starting out on guitar with a cheapo guitar. It is a start but the whole time you have it you never get the reward of hearing yourself actually sound good and you are always lusting after something better. Unless you are just experiencing a passing fancy, I would get a better guitar.

I concur with this opinion. Get as much steel as you can afford. When I started I was 41 and that was less than 31/2 years ago. I was a guitar player who played a bit of lap steel and I did not win any flatpicking contests! I got a BMI s10 3/4 which served me well and then last march I just bought an Emmons d10 pp. It seems apparent that you'll take to the instrument like a fish to water so avoid the tiny pond!

Also seeking out Bill Rudolf is great advice he is a good guy for sure
Welcome aboard.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 14 Sep 2011 9:42 am

As has already been said, the maverick has only one knee lever. In the years since it was produced, more changes have been discovered, and their use is included much of today's instruction material. Sooner or later you will read about some of them, and if your instrument doesn't have them, you will get frustrated.

You want a guitar with 10 or 12 strings, (12 are preferable if you plan to play rock,) 3 pedals and 4 knee levers.

The Carter Starter has the necessary 4 knee levers, and is a good beginner's instrument, but is not very sturdy, and as has also been said, since you are already an accomplished musician, you will want something better.

The Stage One is an excellent choice. But it is not your only one. There are other well made intermediate level guitars in the same price range out there. The Legend (Formerly the Carpsteel) and the Simmons. I've never seen or played a Simmons, and so I can't say anything about them, but others have said they liked them. I have seen and played the other 2 and I liked them both. I actually preferred the Legend, because it weighs next to nothing.

So basically, you have 3 choices in the $1.000 range, Bud Carter's ETS, which is more expensive, but is most likely a better guitar than any of the others, or a used instrument. (Bud Carter was the engineering genius behind MSA for years, before teaming up with the late John Fabian to form Carter Steel Guitars.) If he's making it, it will be a quality instrument.

I'm partial to MSA, and suggest you get one of those. (Everybody else is going to suggest you buy their favorite brand too.) The MSA guitars from the 70s (which were made by Bud Carter) are built like tanks, and will last a lifetime. MSA made a lot of them, so they are not valuable collector's items and can be bought for less than a vintage Emmons or Sho-bud.

The only disadvantage of a vintage MSA is that they weigh a lot. If that doesn't bother you, in my opinion, you are better off getting one than you would be with a newer intermediate level guitar.

Atom Schmitt · Post by **Atom Schmitt** » 14 Sep 2011 11:08 am

Neat to see there are other guys doing this around here. I'm in Minneapolis. If any of you local fellas are bored late tomorrow night, I'll be making my PSG debut at Toby Keith's - my country band is playing after Wade Bowen, who'll be a great show to see in and of itself.

Robert Parent · Post by **Robert Parent** » 14 Sep 2011 1:13 pm

Hi Rick,

Welcome to the forum..... There are several here that live in the TC metro area including myself.

The stage one would be a hard guitar to beat if you are looking for a new student model that actually works.

Robert

Rick Larson · Post by **Rick Larson** » 14 Sep 2011 2:08 pm

Nice to see so many Minnesotans here. If any of you guys want to play some old time classic country I've got the Tele licks.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Sep 2011 3:44 pm

In that price range, I would still go for the Stage One. I have never seen one, but know many who have and they say nothing bad about them. The only drawback for me is, the second string can only lower 1/2 step to D and the pedals setup can not be changed. This according to an email I got from Doug Earnest when I asked those questions.

Of course, finding a good used pro guitar is preferable, but finding one around $1000 is going to be a little bit hard, but they do show up once in a while. Definitely get 3 pedals and 4 knee levers minimum. The Maverick (for a serious new player) is going to frustrate you early and you will have to upgrade to a pro guitar, or find someone that can actually upgrade the Maverick (which would probably be more than a good used one - with the initial cost of the Maverick -) if it can actually be done.

Earl Blake · Post by **Earl Blake** » 15 Sep 2011 4:59 pm

Rick Larson wrote:Nice to see so many Minnesotans here. If any of you guys want to play some old time classic country I've got the Tele licks.

Right on Rick....maybe we'll swap some of those licks when you come out.

Earl

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