The Steel Guitar Forum

I've had a Carter Starter that I bought a few years back that I'm finally getting around to playing, and I have a few questions, that I'll try to keep brief:

1.) The pickup seems shrill to me. For practice purposes I plug it into a Roland Microcube (I know, I know), but I've had it plugged into a Super Twin Reverb and a PODxt modeling a dozen different amps with not much better results. Is this a common issue with Carter Starters, and is there a better pickup that will drop-in?

2.) The surface of the pickup has a gel-like dot underneath the 2nd string which is causing it to buzz. I can't imagine what this is for, perhaps someone added it afterward? I attached a picture, if it helps.



3.) I've been looking over some E9 copedent charts, and my PSG has been set up different; the LKL raises both E's a whole step to F#, rather than just F. Is this common, or even desirable? Is it easy to change?

I know that's a lot, so any help or pointers is truly appreciated. I've been reading the forum for a little while, and it looks like a great community.

I bought a second hand Carter Starter when I first started playing which I had for about three years.

1. I found the pickup fine - I played through a peavey classic 30 amp - but I always adjusted amp tone controls to minimise treble.

When I upgraded to a Carter Magnum Pro Select last year I noticed a big difference in pickup sound quality and also ease of use and stability (to be expected for the much higher price and component quality compared with Carter Starter, which is an inexpensive guitar designed for the beginner).

2. I don't know why there is a gel like dot on the pickup. Mine didn't have one, but did have some paper inserted under one of the strings at the nut end which I removed and it was OK.

3. It is not possible to change the copedent on the Carter Starter. I had the same problem with LKL. You need to check underneath to make sure that the lever is hitting the stop to prevent it raising the string too much, and stopping at F. My lever was slightly bent, and missing the stop. Once straightened, and the adjustments made, it was OK.

Per manual:

....You can adjust the knee lever stops to reduce the distance to the end of travel.The way to do this on RKL and LKL is to raise the screw in the body under the bottom of the LKL (or RKL). This screw functions as a stop to set the end of travel. Once you back out the screw a couple of turns, you will have to retune the tuning nuts....

You can find a manual at:
http://steelguitar.com/manuals/CSOWNERSMANUAL.pdf

Hello Eric,
welcome to this great and helpful community!
I can`t say anything about your pickup (guess others will chime in here) but your tuning issue is easy to fix:

You are right, the common raise on E strings is just a half tone going up to F (very convenient together with pedal A).

The setting of the white plastic hex nuts at the changer end determine the amount of raise or lowering action of the strings.
If you push your LKL, locate the two hex nuts that move (one raises the lower octave E and the other one the higher E). If you turn these screws, you can augment (clockwise) or reduce(counter-clockwise) the changer`s interval. Just turn them CCW until the raise is only a halftone.

It`s a good idea to have a tuning wrench handy for this fine tuning job. If you`ll ever put on strings with different diameters, the required changer action will differ and you want to readjust the proper intervals again.
Carl Williams sells a nice one here at the forum (no horses in this race), others are available from every stell guitar dealer.

Hope that helped a bit
Pit

Erik,CS tuning chart above.

As far as the clear "dot", I would remove it if possible. I don't have it on mine and it looks like some sort of sealent that may have dripped on the pickup.

You can probably check with Bobbe Seymour on available pickups that would work with the Starter. I believe I heard someone on here had placed an alumitone on it.

I do know that I've seen postings that there are people that will make modifications to the Starter but you'll have to decide if the price is worth the change or just wait to save for a "pro" model.

Good luck on your journey.

A typical Carter Starter sounds pretty good with an experienced player playing it..
It takes a while and a lot of tone is in the hands.
Hang in there and work on the clean full sound.

thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

The Carter Starter has been extensively discussed in detail on the Forum. I recommend that you use the Search function and you'll find out everything you need to know.

The white dot under the second string is probably wax. I had a guitar get too hot and the wax expanded coming out of the screw hole. Just scrape it off with a knife blade. There's probably no permanent damage to the pickup.

As others have said on the forum, the LKL lever has an iffy stopping mechanism. This is the main design flaw of this guitar, but it's not insurmountable.

Also the lever's mounting is made of very soft metal -- it can easily be bent if, say, you sit down behind the guitar and accidentally bang it forward with your left knee.

You'll find that you can just gently grab that lever and bend it a little either way (toward the front apron or the rear) and this will change the part of the lever's end that hits the stop-screw. Since the stop-screw has a round head rather than a flat one, it matters in terms of tuning where exactly that lever strikes the screw. So you get one note if it hits it directly on top of the screw -- and a slightly higher pitch when it hits the screw head a little off to the side (I think replacing it with a flat-headed screw would fix this).

So... turn the guitar over and gently pull on the lever, probably toward the back apron, until you see that it is hitting the stop-screw straight on when you engage that lever by hand. Then set up the guitar and tune it up to the F note using the nylon tuners. Try not to accidentally bend the lever in the future.

When playing, do NOT use more force than necassary when you engage that lever. If you push it really hard after you feel it hit the stop, you can force the lever a bit and make the pitch go even higher. Just learn to stop pressing when you feel it stop. A little finesse here goes a long way.

Both LKL and RKL have the iffy stop. The LKL tends to wear out first because of the angle of your leg to the lever. if I were you I would try to seek out an experienced player who can make you up a couple of brackets with adjustable stopper screws.

Erik Cline wrote:1.) The pickup seems shrill to me...
2.) The surface of the pickup has a gel-like dot ...
3.) LKL raises both E's a whole step to F#, rather than just F...

1. You may try boosting the bass and cutting treble and mid frequency at around 800 hz if possible. The EQ for steel guitar is generally different than guitar, regardless of pickup.

2. You may have a non-stock pickup. There are two dots on mine. I dont know what they are, but imagine they may be caps for mounting bolts?


3. Your LKL is just tuned too high. As mentioned previously, turn the hex tuners that raise strings 4 and 8 counterclockwise to loosen. Learning to tune these things can be frustrating. It is part of learning to play it, and even once you know how to play it, tuning it can still be frustrating. Nothing is perfectly tuned in our fractal world, but the pedal steel comes so close sometimes

Clete

That all makes sense. Sometimes when I hit the LKL, it actually goes way past F#. I'll flip it over and check how close it is to hitting the stop.

you have to tune your levers with a 3/16 nut driver. tune the string first, with the lever engaged tune the nylon nut that goes with the lever. And like others said, the shrillness is more a pick technique thing than anything else. try picking farther from the pickup. Good luck

Erik Cline wrote:...Sometimes when I hit the LKL, it actually goes way past F#...

For that you may need the ViceGrip® Whats happening there (and I thought it might have been the issue) is that the lever may be bending. It can break if bent enough times. Check out this thread.

Clete

I had a Starter a while back, and the pickup died so I replaced it with a George L's 10-1. You have to break/file off the mounting tabs so it'll fit in the pickup cavity of the Carter. I just used that double-sided foam mounting tape to secure it, and it worked fine for several years until I sold the steel. Improved and mellowed the tone.

Clete Ritta wrote:

Erik Cline wrote:...Sometimes when I hit the LKL, it actually goes way past F#...

For that you may need the ViceGrip® Whats happening there (and I thought it might have been the issue) is that the lever may be bending. It can break if bent enough times. Check out this thread.

Clete

It looks like you're partially right. I think there is an additional problem, as the video I took shows. It looks like there is too much play in the cross-rod for the LKL, and consequently, it can miss the stop screw. When I pull the rod towards the low strings, it hits the stop screw and is pretty close to a half-step raise, just needs to be tuned. I couldn't get decent quality video or photo, but it looks like the body has split where the nylon washer for this rod rests, and the nylon washer may be at a lower elevation than the others. Definitely not nearly as much play in RKL.

http://youtu.be/i0C9hnLE_QM

Bryan Daste wrote:I had a Starter a while back, and the pickup died so I replaced it with a George L's 10-1. You have to break/file off the mounting tabs so it'll fit in the pickup cavity of the Carter. I just used that double-sided foam mounting tape to secure it, and it worked fine for several years until I sold the steel. Improved and mellowed the tone.

Thanks for the rec; I'll keep it in mind. I think a few of the people are correct, that I can fix some of it with proper picking technique, but I've played electric 6 string for awhile now, and I know what a harsh, nasty pickup sounds like.

I too changed the pickup for a GeorgeL one. It took about 5 mins. Very easy to do. Then I changed the pedals for Emmons ones and moved them to the left. I was going to build a complete new pedal rack which wouldn't bend the way the original does, but I eventually just gave up on the job. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear...

Alan Brookes wrote:You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear...

Too true. I'm keeping that in mind.

i sold my starter and regret it. There are times when a tiny light steel would be perfect. this a great way to cut your teeth on steel guitar.

On the video and by your description it looks like the pedal is moving in a way it shouldnt, perpendicular to the guitar. Can you post some pics of the point where the lever rod and associated nylon bushing is touching the body? I wonder if the nylon busing not where it is supposed to be, I would think it should limit that range of motion some.

It's difficult to get a phot up in there, but the body is cracked underneath the bushing, so I'm guessing it doesn't protrude enough anymore to keep the rod from moving perpendicular to the body. Should be easy enough to shim something in there.

yeah I would try and stop all that lateral movement and see what happens.