Fender 400 query

[Tony Boadle]

OK....really straightforward question, so please, please, a really straightforward answer. (we'll see!)
Can the four pedals on a Fender 400 be set to mimic the actions of the three pedals and one knee lever on a Maverick? If yes, how? If no, why not....and could they be with modifications?

[Morgan Scoggins]

Tony,
The best setup that I know of for an 8 string Fender 400 is E9 tuning ( G# E B G# F# E D B) hi to low. Use the two outside pedals to raise and lower the E's and use the 2nd and third pedal the same as the A & B pedal on an 10 string steel( raise the B's to C# and Raise the G#'s to A).
This will give you as close as possible to a Nashville tuning and you can get a lot of standard E9 licks from this tuning.
I'm sure there are a lot of SGF folks out there with other suggestions, but I like this setup the best.

[Tony Boadle]

Thanks for the info Morgan....very encouraging! I'm a banjo picker with a Dobro on the side, but burdened with a long-term hankering to dabble with a PSG. I had a very brief affair with a Maverick and then a Carter, but amongst other hurdles I found the 10 strings and knee levers just a tad too much for my co-ordination.
I have my eye on a budget-friendly Fender 400, purely for spare-time recreational picking. Your advice has convinced me to progress the deal. Thanks and have a good weekend,
(I'll ask Mr. Obama to bring you back some Irish souvenirs after his impending visit!)
Regards, Tony, Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland

[james sluder]

Morgan ,,you have a good looking setup here ! Im wondering ,,regular psg strings come in a standered 10 string's set ! Your using 8 >> which 2 strings do you leave off ?? . I play a Fender 400 ,8 string also ,,i use a differen't setup and it works great for me ! Mine has the Day setup on it ,C B A D ! The D pedal lowers the E;s,,I took that pedal off & put a LNL lever on it ,,now using the B pedal & D lever to lower the E's makes a nice V7 CHORD > Just my thought's !
Just wondereng which 2 strings you leave off !

Thanks, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Jim.

[Morgan Scoggins]

James,
My eight string tuning is the same as a standard 10 string tuning with the two high strings ( F# and D# ) omitted.

[james sluder]

Thanks for your reply Morgan . I might try your setup.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Jim

[Jerry Hayes]

I agree with Morgan on his setup. I had a 400 at one point which was setup the same way. P1 raised both E's to F, P2 raised both B's to C#, P3 raised both G#'s to A and P4 lowered both E's to D#. With this you can do your normal pedal things with the A & B pedals plus play the other combinations with P1 & P2 and P3 & P4. Plus when you've got the 2nd and 3rd pedals depressed you can swing your right foot over and add the 4th pedal into the equasion for a nice 9th chord voicing.. A very usable setup.....JH in Va.

[Peter Darling]

Good morning Sir, I am Pete from England and have just started out with PSG and have a Fender 1000. I find your article answers all my questions except one. Using your set up ommiting the top two strings, what string gauges would you reccomend please?
I have tried setting my Fender up to the factory settings and managed to play chordy backing stuff but found it really hard going. The 7th chords sounded really great but hard work to get your head around it.
Do you have a Fender still set up as you have described?
I am new to the forum and PSG so if what I ask sounds stupid I apologise up front!
Peter Darling

Tony,
The best setup that I know of for an 8 string Fender 400 is E9 tuning ( G# E B G# F# E D B) hi to low. Use the two outside pedals to raise and lower the E's and use the 2nd and third pedal the same as the A & B pedal on an 10 string steel( raise the B's to C# and Raise the G#'s to A).
This will give you as close as possible to a Nashville tuning and you can get a lot of standard E9 licks from this tuning.
I'm sure there are a lot of SGF folks out there with other suggestions, but I like this setup the best.

[Jim Sliff]

Pop over to our forum over here:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Fender_Steel_Forum/index.php

...we have the Fender string gage chart posted in one of the threads and you can get all you want to know (and probably a lot you don't! ) about Fender Steels. The 200+ cableheads residing there have a wealth of knowledge and experience.

As to the original question, it's a piece of cake to set up that way. The only decision you need to make is which strings to leave off, and most leave of the chromatics. Also, if it's a long-scale Fender (rectangular Jazzmaster-style pickup, chrome pedals), especially with a bar bridge (not and aftermarket roller one) you may find D9 will result in less string breakage. They were not made originally for E9 and there is a ton of stress on the high string.

If you are picking one up cheaply either log onto the link above or email me privately - every single used 400 I've had go through my door (5 I've owned and about another 15-20 checked out for others) has needed several key maintenance areas neglected, making it feel stiff and/or affect the pulls and returns. There's some initial cleaning mandatory, and specific lube work (NEVER use oil on a Fender. It creates...or magnifies...problems. We've found dry Teflon to be the only really good lube, and only after parts are cleaned/flushed).

You'll also find info on several alternate copedents that are either unique or easier to pick up quickly, especially for 6-string players.


Jim (aka Silverface everywhere else on the planet and "Cablehead"/webmaster - Fender Steel Forum)

[Peter Darling]

Thanks a bunch Jim for that very welcome info.
Come to think of it my Fender 1000 is a little stiff and probably needs some maintenance but until I have read up on what to do I won't tackle it yet. Mine has chrome pedals, a roller bridge and a 24 and 1/2" string length. It has been fitted with "Hog Rings???" to help stop string breakage and on one neck the top two bridge rollers have been replaced with smaller diameter nylon rollers to help eliviate string break.
I plan to leave out the top two strings on E9 tuning.
I will get on to the link for Fenders you kindly submitted and look forward very much to talking Fender.
I was beginning to think that 8 string Fenders were frowned at so it's nice to chat to people that like them.
Kind regards
Pete

Pop over to our forum over here:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Fender_Steel_Forum/index.php

...we have the Fender string gage chart posted in one of the threads and you can get all you want to know (and probably a lot you don't! ) about Fender Steels. The 200+ cableheads residing there have a wealth of knowledge and experience.

As to the original question, it's a piece of cake to set up that way. The only decision you need to make is which strings to leave off, and most leave of the chromatics. Also, if it's a long-scale Fender (rectangular Jazzmaster-style pickup, chrome pedals), especially with a bar bridge (not and aftermarket roller one) you may find D9 will result in less string breakage. They were not made originally for E9 and there is a ton of stress on the high string.

If you are picking one up cheaply either log onto the link above or email me privately - every single used 400 I've had go through my door (5 I've owned and about another 15-20 checked out for others) has needed several key maintenance areas neglected, making it feel stiff and/or affect the pulls and returns. There's some initial cleaning mandatory, and specific lube work (NEVER use oil on a Fender. It creates...or magnifies...problems. We've found dry Teflon to be the only really good lube, and only after parts are cleaned/flushed).

You'll also find info on several alternate copedents that are either unique or easier to pick up quickly, especially for 6-string players.


Jim (aka Silverface everywhere else on the planet and "Cablehead"/webmaster - Fender Steel Forum)

[Ronnie Boettcher]

Way back when, I found a Fender 400. I had no clue what to do with it, bur found the tuning of a Sho~Bud ten string, E-9 tuning. I omitted the 2 lower strings, and used the other strings. Basically, I only used the A-B pedals and didnt bother with the other 2. Set it up Emmons style. Very shortly I found out what I was missing. Sold it for what I paid for it and ordered my LDG. With my 3 pedals, and 4 knees, I have all I need forever.

[Tom Wolverton]

At the risk of getting flamed here, I have a few questions (ahem, here goes) ....

I've heard that the cables on old Fenders are sluggish in response and a bit trouble-some. Some guys replace the cables with regular pull rods. Is this worth doing? Did Sneaky Pete run cables on his modified Fender?

[Russ Tkac]

Sneaky used cables and if they are set up well they work good. I have an old 400 and it is tons of fun to play. I know some have changed over to rods but I'd stay with a modern steel for that.

[Pastor Bruce Kiser]

yes,guys,
they are a ton of fun ,400's .mine has this tuning -
low to high : B,E,G#,B,E,G#,C#,D . this gives me
a 7th on string 1 at just a reach across.
DAY pedal setup because of some foot problems.
have mounted 2 homegrown KL's to raise and lower E's.
works really well - can pull or lower 2 frets at
will.the lowering lever has a rod.no sweat to do.
i really like the way these lend themselves to
experimentation by just moving whichever cable onto
the chosen finger assembly.these guitars may be old - but they're definately not dead .P4 lowers G#'s
to give a minor open chord--VERY handy!P2-P3areA&B- same as standard steels .P1 raises string 3 to F#
while lowering string 7 to Eb for a very nice 5 sev-
enth . don't be afraid to tinker a little - you may be pleasantly and most of all SONICALLY surprised.
pastor bruce

[Bob Carlucci]

At the risk of getting flamed here, I have a few questions (ahem, here goes) ....

I've heard that the cables on old Fenders are sluggish in response and a bit trouble-some. Some guys replace the cables with regular pull rods. Is this worth doing? Did Sneaky Pete run cables on his modified Fender?

100% incorrect information you have been getting... My last Fender 800 pedal steel played absolutely beautifully. Accurate, fast and surprisingly light pedal action... I worked to get it that way, but it was't hard to do really.
It stayed in tune better than most pedal guitars made during those years. It didn't play as softly or with quite the precision of a good modern steel, but played better than most guitars of the same era.
I sold it about a year and a half, maybe 2 years ago, regretted it TERRIBLY ever since, and have been looking for another the entire past year and a half... IMHO, the cable pull system is a good setup, once you get familiar with it... It stays in tune, and works well, when set up correctly... bob

[Jim Sliff]

What Bob said.

That's the typical garbage we hear, usually quoted by guys who play the "flavor of the month" guitar that their hero switched to.

The fact is that many Fender DO play very stiffly - only because of lousy maintenance. Like many mechanical devices, if you continually oil moving parts and nver chean the broken-down oil out, over 50 years parts are either frozen or sluggish.

Every single one I've worked on (and that's up to a couple dozen in person and dozens more vi email or phone) has had problems that were easily solved with solvent and the right lube.

The cable system works perfectly as is, or can be tweaked (spring changes, helper springs, string gage changes) to play fairly lightly. My last short-scale 400 played as lightly and smoothly as my GFI Ultra. Long scales are slightly stiffer by their nature, but still play fine with proper maintenance.

Sneaky played with bone stock cables except for his knee levers...which also used cables.

The only "troublesome" things are 1) E9 tuning, which they were not designed for...it can be done but the bridge has to be finely polished and string changes regularly scheduled; the mentioned stiffness problem, solved in an hour if you know how to clean, and 3) popping solder joints, only an issue if you use electrical solder on what are structural connections.

In other words, all the problems relate to the player - not the instrument.

Changing one to rods has more disadvantages tan advantages - stock Fenders are the easiest guitars on the planet to change copedents on. Once you know how they work you can switch a 4-6 pedal one to a totally different copedent in the time it takes to change strings plus about 20 minutes! Try that on a ShoBud! This makes them not only good performance instruments, but great for experimenting and playing different styles. In one weekend I had an 8-string, all-cable, 8+2 400 in B6, a tweaked Al Perkins E7, and a sacred Steel E. Why?

Because I could.

Set it up with rods and you lose all the flexibility - and it WILL affect the tone - stock guitars have a guitar tone with that big maple body (the only rigid metal is the frame, which is the primary reason there is zero cabinet drop); the more stiff metal you add connected to the strings the more you level the playing field. There's just no reason to do it.