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Topic: AB + E-lever chord? |
John Peay
From:
Cumming, Georgia USA
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Posted 4 May 2011 6:23 pm |
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Ok, help a newbie out here. Am I playing a dominant 9th when I hit AB with my E's lowered (my E-lever, LKR)? Take the A-pedal away and it's a dominant 7th, of course, so the A-pedal is raising the root of the V7th to a 2nd, making a 9th chord, a V9th ?
What other "uses" are there for this chord, or is it mostly used as that V9?
Last edited by John Peay on 4 May 2011 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 4 May 2011 6:33 pm
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Yes. and Yes.
Open you have B D# and F# which comprise the BMaj triad on strings 10(5) 8(4 -- also 2) and 7(1)
When you add the 6th and 3rd strings you have a G# with no pedal, producing a B6 chord. With the B pedal the Ma6 tone is raised to a b7, producing a B7 chord.
Raising the B to C# raises the tonic note to a 2nd (also known as 9th) producing a rootless B9 chord.
Eb lever + A + B = B9
Eb lever + B = B7
Eb lever alone = B6
A Dom9 chord can be used MOST any place a Dom7 chord can be used == transition from I -- I7 or I9 -- IV for example. As you mention, the V9 chord is a passing chord resolving to the I. Actually both I to IV and V to I are the same interval -- a fourth up.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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John Peay
From:
Cumming, Georgia USA
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Posted 4 May 2011 6:57 pm
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Thanks, Larry....the G# to get a pedals-up 6th, good tip, I gotta start using that....
I guess the G#m (E-lever, without the F#) can sub for that B6 as well... |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 4 May 2011 9:24 pm
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| In that position, you get chromatic notes on the bottom three strings. You can also lower the second string a whole step and let off the A pedal to fill out the scale on the top strings. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 5 May 2011 1:52 am
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Excel Chord finder.
refer to picture further down.
Last edited by Stuart Legg on 9 May 2011 2:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 5 May 2011 6:46 am
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I use the A & B pedals with the E lever to get a 9th chord.
In fact, I use it quite a bit in my tabs.  |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 5 May 2011 8:12 am
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John, I use that chord a lot when playing swing tunes, mostly when going from the I to the IV chord. Example: playing the C7 chord at the 8th fret and then dropping back to the 6th fret and lowering the E's and using the A & B pedals. I also use it in the I position when doing songs with a "James Brown" flavor.........JH in Va.
_________________
Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!! |
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Lynn Stafford
From:
Ridgefield, WA USA
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Posted 5 May 2011 9:10 am 9th Chord
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Hi John,
I also use that chord quite a lot. I discovered not too long ago, that you can get an augmented 9th chord while using AB pedals and LKR, plus raising either the 1st or 7th string a half tone (to G in the open position). Try it, if you happen have that change on your guitar.
_________________
Best regards,
Lynn Stafford
STEEL GUITAR WEST
http://www.steelguitarwest.com
Steel Guitar Technician (Restoration, Set-up, Service and Repair work)
Previous Emmons Authorized Dealer & Service Technician (original factory is now closed)
ZumSteel Authorized Service Technician
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 5 May 2011 9:26 am
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| hey stuart...what the heck tuning is that? i thought they were talking E9 here? are you taking your dad's medicine again? |
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David Ellison
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 May 2011 10:23 am
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>>Example: playing the C7 chord at the 8th fret and then dropping back to the 6th fret and lowering the E's and using the A & B pedals.
That doesn't make sense to me. The 9th chord with A&B pedals and Eb lever is two frets down from the "pedals down" position (not the open position, as you're suggesting), right?
I use it for to go from a 6th chord with the Eb lever, then you just add the pedals to go from a 6th chord to a 9th... or in the pedals down position, sliding back two frets and adding the lever.
Pumping the A pedal to go back and forth between a 7th chord and a 9th chord is (Im pretty sure) what Ralph Mooney did in the intro to The Bottle Let Me Down to get a bluesy sound (it's blusey because it doesn't resolve to anything).
A really cool thing I just recently discovered (accidentally... just hitting around on my steel) is that you also have a big 9th chord with the B pedal and a half-pedal on the A pedal... two frets up from the pedals up position. This works great when going from a I chord with pedals down to a IV chord, just by releasing the A pedal half way.
That makes three positions where you have ninth chords across 6 – 8 strings (E9, F#9 and D9 chords at the 12th fret). Who needs a C6 neck? |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 5 May 2011 12:35 pm
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| hey stuart...what the heck tuning is that? i thought they were talking E9 here? are you taking your dad's medicine again? |
Chris on a 10 string E9 setup Emmons with 3 pedals and 3 knees (A B C and 1 lever to lower the Es, 1 lever to raise the Es and 1 lever to lower the 2nd string 1 step or 1/2 step with a half stop, this diagram is what the position in question would look like in numbers in all keys.
The colored blocks are 1 or 2 frets in front of or 1 or 2 frets in back of the bar as they would appear on the E9 Neck. I laid it out in this manor so I can see the bar slant possibilities as well.
When the corresponding pedal or lever is used that particular note or notes is pulled under the bar.
I have each of the 5 most used positions and 2 sub positions laid out in this manor for quick reference.
Bo has it memorized. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 5 May 2011 1:27 pm
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| i still blame your dad! |
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Larry Robertson
From:
Denver, Colorado, USA
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Posted 5 May 2011 5:25 pm
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And don't forget that a dom 9th is also a minor 6th. D9th = same notes as an A minor 6th with a different root (A for the minor 6th instead of D for the d9.)
_________________
Website: www.Music2myEars.net
MSA D-10, Carter U12, Fessy SDU-12,Emmons P/P D-10, Emmons P/P U-12,Emmons S-10 ShoBud SuperPro, Lap steel, keyboards, 6-string Guitars.. too many |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 5 May 2011 6:50 pm
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| i guess i'm confused...i thought the 4th and 8th strings would be the 1..etc. |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 7 May 2011 2:03 am chart
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I get it Stu
I enjoy the posts you and your dad present.
I always learn something from a different point of view
thanks
Rick |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 7 May 2011 6:16 am
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If the 1 chord is A (A+B depressed open position), and I engage the E-flat lever, the notes beg to go to a D chord. There must be a few songs that serve as an example, but I can't think of one at the moment.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 8 May 2011 5:28 am
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| Seems to beg for an E. (A+B+(E flatted). With the standard grips I hear a B9. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 8 May 2011 6:08 am
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No, I don't think so. I was thinking of the sequence
A- B9- D- A, in 3/4 rhythm.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 8 May 2011 6:19 am Cool Chord Finder
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| Stuart, thanks, for me that little chord finder is quite useful. steve t |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 8 May 2011 9:24 am
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Joachim,
You may be hearing that it wants to go to D, but a B7 or B9 is most commonly used as a five of the five chord (secondary dominant).
A-B9-D-A, is interesting too but not so typical. Kinda church-y sounding to me. If you play Dmaj--B9--E7--A,, the pull into the five chord will be obvious. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 8 May 2011 10:07 am
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Brett, I was wrong because in the first two chords the A note must be the root to make it sound alright to go to D. Then of course the second chord is not B9 but an A chord with an added Eflat.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Hermitage, TN
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Posted 8 May 2011 10:47 am
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Joachim,
How's the weather in outer space? Just kidding...
I guess that would make sense in a jazz blues, if you made the one chord dominant as well as adding the sharp eleven. |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 8 May 2011 11:33 am
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Brett, is it so hard to understand what I mean!
Just take your old acoustic and play the following chords:
D-major on the first three strings.
1st index finger on the second fret (G string),
2nd index on 1st fret (G string),
3rd open (G string)
4th back to D, index on second fret (G string).
Just try it. It's very common descendig line.
Or play just plain D, E and G.
_________________
Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Bill Bertinot
From:
Burlington Ky
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Posted 8 May 2011 9:01 pm John
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John,
Another great use of that chord is as the V7 going back to the minor chord.
Half-pedal the A pedal from the V7 position. Example: key of A minor; play the V7 then rock the A pedal half way up to the "flatted" ninth then let off and resolve to your A minor.
And BTW, because the V flat 9th is also a diminished chord, you can move it up or down every three frets and do all the many and varied things that make diminished chords fun! |
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Stuart Legg
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Posted 9 May 2011 2:29 am Re: Cool Chord Finder
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| steve takacs wrote: |
| Stuart, thanks, for me that little chord finder is quite useful. steve t |
I would be happy to email all the positions in this Excel chord finder.
I file them in relation to the Up and Down positions.
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