Open G suggestions

[Bob McElroy]

I posted a few days ago about getting my butt kicked by lap steel; the learned and helpful suggestions to try other tunings is under consideration and I am not ignoring your suggestions. I appreciate every one's time.

That said, I am have played Open G for years on my regular (what is corect term, normal? fretted?) guitar and have a decent understanding of how to work it. Rather then learn lap technique AND a new tuning right away, I though I might ease in by staying i G for a few weeks.

I am working on "People Get Ready" and Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone" with so/so results.

What are some other good tunes to work on?

Bob

[Mike Neer]

Bob, don't give up so easily on learning C6. I know it is frustrating to not be able to play the way you think you should, but it will come in time....trust me on this. Go through the pain now and come out the other end a better player. You'll eventually have to go through it all over again anyway--the techniques for playing C6 and G are a bit different, especially with regard to the right hand.

If anything, go to another lap steel tuning, like E6. You have to let go of the guitar connection. You can keep the music theory, but you have to separate the instrument--otherwise, it will just be like playing slide guitar.

If I had the time, I'd invite you down for a lesson, but, unfortunately, I don't have any spare time right now.

[Chris Walke]

Open G is versatile (which version you're using - DGDgbd or GBDgbd?) and I don't think there's anything wrong with starting there. And I'd encourage you to play any tune that strikes you. Easiest keys to work on right off the bat will be G major & D major. Take your time in the learning process. It takes some patience when you're getting your bearings on lap steel. It'll come and it'll start feeling more natural as you get comfortable.

The adjacent string intervals on open G (root, third, fifth) can be a stepping stone for an 8-string tuning like C6 (ACEGaceg). If you're only playing 6 strings, you can preserve that top triad by lopping off the bottom 2 strings of that tuning (EGaceg) which I use often, but there's not much instructional material or tab for that 6-string version of C6. The other caveat is open G is not going to force you to learn right hand grips (as Mike mentions) that are essential in any tuning that's not a straight major chord.

[Bob McElroy]

everybody would play steel guitar, is that what you're saying?

Alrighty, I'll dig out the correct string gauges and get sixy with it.

[John Billings]

If you're using Low Bass G Tuning, Danny Gatton's "Funky Mama" lays out beautifully. I play that 'un with my Blues buddies.

[Mark van Allen]

Good suggestions all around. IMO, the tunings you explore and/or settle on have a lot to do with what music you want to play and how you want to sound doing it.
Any 6th tuning, while bringing a whole new sound to the table, also requires new fingering and playing approaches. I'd suggest retuning your 4th string to E on the G tuning to get a feel for the 6th sound and feel, and seeing if that might interest you.

Many people seem to consider G to be the "Dobro" or bluegrass tuning, and E or D necessary for rock and blues, C6 for Hawaiian or western swing, etc. If you get a chance listen to or go see Randy Khors, who completely tears up the hot Dobro vibe on acoustic reso, and then absolutely tears up rock and blues on electric lap, both in G tuning. Inspiring.

[Mike Neer]

I agree with Mark's sentiment that it's the player who should play the tuning--the tuning should not determine what you play.

[John Billings]

Mike, in general I agree. Single string leads, some double and triple stops, but for Rock and Blues, there are certain groupings and intervals that you're just not gonna get on a 6-string in a 6th tuning. You can do a heck of a lot, but there's gonna be some important stuff missing. My 7 and 8 string guitars are generally in a 6th tuning, but lately the Fender 8 has been in an extended Low Bass G, and it's a blast!

[Mike Neer]

Can you give me an example, John? Almost all of the stuff I can do in open G, I can do in C6 (talking about string groupings or intervals). The only difference is that sometimes there is a string in between. In fact, now that I think about it, the only difference in the tuning is that the g tuning has the 5th on top, whereas the C6 stops at the 3rd and instead brings in the 6th.

Here's what I mean:
G tuning intervals (higher note first)------C6 tuning
D--B = minor 3rd.............................C--A = min 3rd
B--G = major 3rd.............................E--C = maj 3rd
G--D = 4th, etc................................C--G = 4th

D--G = 5th......................................E--A = 5th
B--D = maj 6th.................................E--G = maj 6th

See what I mean, or is this not clear?

Again, I'm not trying to peddle anything (har har), but I think you can do just about anything in C6. It will require you to work harder on your technique and to digest the way the notes lay out, but once you do, the sky's the limit.

[John Billings]

Things that are common in Rock and Blues such as the low EBE or DAD slides. Playing a steady low root bass with your thumb. Here's the Gatton tune I play on lap in Low Bass G.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUpP7CnW4yA

[John Billings]

I'm not sure witch 7ths you're referring to, but I get tons of them in G tuning. Keep the bass goin' steady on the open 5th string, with my thumb, tilt the bar a bit, 1st and 2nd strings at the third fret, Same with the C chord, but you can only grab the 5th st, 5th fret C occasionally as you're movin' around. And of course, you have the open 6th string D for anything you want to play over the 5 chord.
I can play the first 5 verses darn near verbatim, then some of the sax type stuff, then just jam. Drop one of your guitars into Low G, and try it. It really does lay out quite easily, but quickly! Having heard you, I know you can do it! Ya gotta keep that steady Duh duh duh da duh bass goin' on the chord roots as long, and as often as you can. Great tune for Tele, Bottleneck, and Lapsteel. I play it on all three. When you're doin' the 5 beat chord switches from G to C back to G, and same as with the C to F to C, alternate your steady thumb to the 6th string to keep the same G root bass goin.' Song is fun to play. Easier to learn off the recording though, as it's much cleaner.

[Mike Neer]

Sorry, I deleted my earlier post which John is referring to.

John, the shell voicing of the 7th chord (using the 3rd and the b7) is a tritone. The way Danny plays the phrase, the basic notes he plays are F on the D string and B on the G string with the low G string underneath. I can't imagine living without that interval in my tuning.

[John Billings]

I play that, if I'm understanding correctly, 4th string on the third fret, 2nd string open. There's a lot of "tipping" involved in playing this song.

[Mike Neer]

I need to be able to do that in every key, so it has to be built in to the tuning for me.

There are some players who get extremely creative with the G tuning. Don Rooke is one (although he tunes his 6th string to an A 1 whole step above the 3rd string). He uses a lot of open strings, which is what most G tuning players do. I only do it when it's necessary, otherwise I try not to in C6.

[John Billings]

You're right Mike. That only works in the open position for the G chord. And other chords, ya gotta go up 3 frets and play the any combination of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th strings. Different intervals for sure. And that's when you can't keep the dead thumb bass going.

[Steinar Gregertsen]

but I think you can do just about anything in C6. It will require you to work harder on your technique and to digest the way the notes lay out, but once you do, the sky's the limit.

Yes.... and no, at least if we're talking about blues/rock styles of playing. One thing is playing the right notes, another thing is to play them so that they sound like you're playing blues/rock. In a way you need to play "sloppy", by that I mean a with a certain aggressive attack and also the ability to 'strum', 'rake', or whatever it's called.
Having to watch out for that "6th tuning" string can really be a party pooper in those situations...

So no matter where I end up with the C6 and E13 on 8-string adventure, I'll always need a 6-string in a major chord tuning for that stuff, there's no getting around it.

[Mike Neer]

Yes, Steinar, we all know how sloppy you play!

[Steinar Gregertsen]

Oh, you have no idea......

[Twayn Williams]

That said, I am have played Open G for years on my regular (what is corect term, normal? fretted?) guitar and have a decent understanding of how to work it. Rather then learn lap technique AND a new tuning right away, I though I might ease in by staying i G for a few weeks.

Cindy Cashdollar advocates tuning dobro to standard open G: G-B-D-G-B-D and for a more swing sound tune the middle D up to E for and E6 tuning: G-B-E-G-B-D.

[Stephen Abruzzo]

What are some other good tunes to work on?
Bob

As to tunes.....in Low Bass Open G....I'd say you could have a fun time playing Rolling Stones (Keef) tunes or Robert Johnson stuff.

[Joel Bloom]

Yeah, open G and it's variations are cool. I use a low bass G tuning with a low E string
ie. high to low D B G D G E
Good for full major AND minor chords.
I'll sometimes tune the 1st string to E for that 'chuckberry' interval.

For a 6th steel sound I have an old harmony acoustic tuned to low bass G tuning, with the 6th string tuned to E, the step ABOVE the D string. Bit unusual I suppose but why not, many ways to skin a cat!

Have fun and good luck with it all,
Cheers
Joel

[Steinar Gregertsen]

For a 6th steel sound I have an old harmony acoustic tuned to low bass G tuning, with the 6th string tuned to E, the step ABOVE the D string. Bit unusual I suppose but why not, many ways to skin a cat!

Makes a lot of sense to me, that way you have it available when you need it but at the same time it's out of the way for strumming etc..

Don Rooke of The Henrys does something similar, except he use a high-bass version where the 6th string is tuned to A, a whole step above the G on the 3rd string, so it's D B G D B high-A.

[Bob McElroy]

Damn, lotsa, lotsa tunings. Didn't see that coming.
Lotsa,lotsa great help. That I did see; what a great community here.

I have a rare free evening tonight and can devote a few hours to playing, so looking forward working thru some things.

[Peter Jacobs]

What are some other good tunes to work on?
Bob

As to tunes.....in Low Bass Open G....I'd say you could have a fun time playing Rolling Stones (Keef) tunes or Robert Johnson stuff.

That's basically what I do -- the low B always messed me up, so I just got rid of it like Keef, then added a C on top so I could play suspended chords.

[John Billings]

"so I just got rid of it like Keef"

Yeah! But Keef got rid of it because he was usually too messed up to avoid hitting it! 8^) I like having the low D, cuz it can add real "power" to the 5 chord.