The Steel Guitar Forum

I have been going off and on to steel guitar conventions for the last 14 years and enjoy them very much..

I have had a strong desire to get started learning and playing the Pedal Steel,but I have to say it is very frustrating when it costs as much for a PSG as a used car..

How can anyone in the PSG business expect to keep players comin' on the scene when you have to be comfortable,or give an arm and a leg to get into one..

I know many PSG players,and have talked with a couple of manufacturers of the product. They have told me about some of the work involved in the making of a PSG..

Even so,it seems to me there should be a more affordable way to get started..

I feel that there is a bit of greed going on where the price is concerned..

I also feel as though PSG is like a country club, and that the high price of the instrument is your initiation in..

It just don't seem right at all to me..

Buy used. Just like dealing with vehicles. You can save a lot of money.

I see you're a golfer. How do you feel about greens fees?

Hi Kent,
I agree that it sure can be expensive to pursue playing steel guitar. I am not sure how much "greed" is involved since there is quite a bit of labor involved in building one but, then again...manufacturers are in business and that meens trying to at least make a little money...trying to stay in business and just break even will put you under quite soon that aside, as Billy Carr sugested..by used..I just bought my first brand new pedal steel after owning 5 others, all used! What a feeling finally owning one that I was the first to own or play!..but, for a long time I could not afford nor justify the expense of a "new" one untill I felt my playing/income from playing warrented it.
Nothing wrong with used! ..go for it!!
and I hope you enjoy your journey into the pedal steel guitar World

Kent

For your own amusement, go get a quote for having a the patterns made for a keyhead, endplates, pedals and necks. Then get a quote for having castings made for three dozen guitars using an alloy that is both musical and really shines up -- not common 6061. Then get a quote for machining and buffing out the rough castings. And pretend that you have to pay for all these castings at once before you have orders for all the guitars.

Then start pricing out birdseye or flame maple.

I think you will be scratching your head asking how anyone makes money building and selling pedal steels.

Just be thankful that there are people that do.

What Chris said. And, like all instruments, the cost is a small down payment compared to the resources you have to invest to learn to play it well - if there is a club, and if there is an initiation fee, that would be it.

I agree with Billy - if you can't afford new, buy used. In fact, Billy is a good source for used guitars - I got one from him a few years ago, still got it. And then there are lots of good deals on this forum and other dealers in the under-2000 price range.

Here are some deals on the forum just from the last 2-3 weeks, ranging from perfectly workable but older pro-level guitars to really nice and almost new guitars. The criterion I applied was that it had to be a pro-model and cost no more than $1500. I don't know these guitars or most of these sellers personally, but I've had very good luck buying guitars of this ilk on the forum:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=202254

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=202255

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=201229

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=202154

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=200605

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=201864

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=201823

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=201945

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=201890

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=200982

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=200015

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=200365

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=201596

Of course, some of these are sold - people that do their homework know a deal when they see one. Brands that I typically see in this range (sometimes even under a grand) are MSA, BMI, Dekley, Carter, Thomas, and Sho Bud. They're usually S-10 of some sort (single or double body) but sometimes D-10s and universals pop up for that kind of dough.

If you really do your homework and show some patience and perseverance, you can really reel in a deal here if you're serious. Lots of pretty ordinary but pro-quality 6-string guitars cost more than some of these pro-quality pedal steels.

I also agree that new pedal steels are not remotely overpriced, when one considers what goes into making them. Which makes these inexpensive pro-models a crazy bargain, IMO. If I had these kinds of deals available in the early 70s (in comparable early 70s dollars), I would have started playing PSG then. But I really couldn't afford a grand or two back then ($1000 1971 dollars is almost $5500 2011 dollars, so 2 grand then is about comparable to 11 grand today) - you really really could buy a decent new car in 1971 for 2 grand. What kind of car are you really gonna buy for 1-3 grand today? Or even 5 grand? Definitely not new.

My take.

I wasn't talking about a new car in comparison. I was speaking of used..If you look at the used price of cars, you will find a new PSG is quite comparable in price..

I have looked at used,but nothing in my price range for what I would want..

Perhaps we need a mass production dealer who gets and builds their parts in a foreign country where labor is cheaper..If a player wants specific specs then you go to the custom shop,and pay those prices for such..

In my opinion

Single neck price new $800.00
Double neck price new $1000.00

Make it affordable to the mainstream..

As far as used goes..I'd like to see a Emmons Legrande Double neck for go for less than $1500.00

I'm not a huge sho-bud fan..

Well, in some cases it's just not the sum of the parts either. Some companies do a lot of research and development work to try to improve their products and that's also cost that has to be recovered in the price. There are some good entry level steels out there for under $1200 - $1300 for which I have heard good reviews. Used "Pro" steels can be good buys depending on what you're looking for. I may be doomed to a Carter Starter, but you don't have to be. Patience is key.

Kent Thompson wrote: Single neck price new $800.00
Double neck price new $1000.00

If you keep your eye on the Forum for a few months, you WILL occasionally find good used guitars that come up in that price range. You'll need to have your money ready and be handy with your mouse, though, cuz they get snapped up quickly by people who know what a great deal they're lookin' at.

But I can tell you, there ain't nobody gettin' rich by building and selling steel guitars.

Tell ya' what, Kent - if you know a way to make a PSG comparable to an Emmons Legrande D-10 in a way that you can make a reasonable profit on it while selling it for less than $1500, my suggestion is that you should go into business and do it right away. A lot of people will beat a path to your door, I'm confident you will do very well indeed. I'm perfectly serious.

???? Pedal steels are over priced? As Chris said go get those quotes. This is a very uninformed thread. The material and labor costs on a D-10 Lacquer body guitar should be $5000.00! You can get a used Stage One for under a $1000.00. A lacquer body alone is worth $1000.00 in wood materials, and labor. Greed? Are you kidding? If anything steels are under priced. The investment in money and time/machining is enormous.
This is not an instrument in Guitar Center. It's not for cheapos. It's a machine.

Oh, and when you're forming an opinion about how fairly priced steel guitars are or aren't, be sure to watch this video which really only shows the tip of the iceberg...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1396712/h ... piliyoriz/

Look at prices on higher end 6 string guitars (example Teles & Les Pauls at $5-6000)compared to lesser quality (?) same brands/models $3-700)...WHY ?

I've always been happy with lesser valued instruments ..... they get the job done & I don't worry as much about damage & theft . Not to mention the advance in technology and choices available now.

Think after wanting to do this for so long , I would've started saving 14 yrs ago. Now with the brands to choose from I wouldn't have to worry.

A $4-6000 guitar ain't for me , but I don't mind that others do...... and maybe in 10 yrs I can buy it for $1-2000 .

I use to think the same way that PSG was over priced until i became a builder myself , once you start calculating your time and all your material expenses ect...and i make almost all my parts ;you realize that 2500 to 3000$ for a SD10 3x4 is not over priced ,like some others said just go and get some quotes on materials ect...

...makes me wonder who is greedy: The buyer who wants to pay next to nothing, or the small builder constructing a very complex instrument more or less by hand.

Pedal steel guitars are dirt cheap, considering the amount of work and materials. Try building one from scratch, using only raw materials and maybe buying tuning machines and legs – an S10 would still probably be close to 1,500 bucks in materials only! If anything, they should cost more. To bring down prices significantly, volumes would have to be much higher than the world-wide demand will ever be.

The spotlight should be on "custom shop" sixstring guitars instead. A top-of-the line acoustic can cost way over 10,000 dollars – even without extensive inlay – with material costs around maybe 1,000 for really, really nice wood and 30–40 hours build time.

Buying used makes good sense, there are some terrific steels on offer via the forum, for a start.

I look at the skills and dedication necessary to make a high-quality steel, and all I can say are two things:-

"You can make a small fortune building pedal steel-guitars...but you have to start with a big one!"

and

"We're all waiting for the first millionare who started with nothing and made his millions from building steel-guitars."

A lot of the cost of building lies in the old supply/demand equations and economies of scale. There's a lot more demand for a Tele type guitar than there is a pedal steel for instance. And tooling up to build Tele type guitars is not as complex as tooling up to build a PSG. You can sell a lot more Tele's than you can PSGs, so fixed costs can be split out over more instruments. Plus, materials can be purchased in larger/economical quantities.

I build banjos. My instruments typically sell in the $2500-$3500 range, and I'm back ordered for several years. But there's no way at that price that I could afford to quit my day job. Although I make most of my parts in house, there is lot of metalwork that is more practical to have done by a specialty shop. This is a lot like it is in the PSG world. If I thought that I would be selling 1000 banjos that used identical parts, I could get the parts at a fraction of what I pay. In fact, I've never built two banjos alike--all of my work is custom. But the bottom line means that in a $2500 banjo, I've got half of that amount tied up in raw materials. By the time you count my expenses and my time, I could make a better hourly wage working in a retail store. But money isn't why I do it, and it's a part time venture for me. I could afford to sell Tele type instruments much cheaper and make more money on them due to lower cost of building/bigger market, but I like building banjos.

PSG builders are in the same boat, only with probably even higher cost of materials and even smaller potential market. I'm also surprised that there are as many builders as they are able to sell as cheaply as they do. Yeah, it's still a lot of money, but I'm sure these guys ain't getting rich on PSG sales...

Dave

I'll throw this in and go. I've bought probably around, just guessing, 15 to 20 brand new steel guitars over the years. I had the "New Fever" for a long time. The first thing learned was once the guitar arrives and it's played, it's considered used. Along with this, is the resale value. Pay 3000.00 for a S-10D. Go to sell it and it's now used. Unless someone wants it really bad the price will usually be several hundred less then the new price. The way I look at it is, if I want a guitar bad enough, doesn't matter if it's new or used. PSG's are basically built alike. Each one has its own personality and sounds and plays a little different. It's the man/woman sitting behind it that's searching for a particular feel/sound. At the present time, for me, it's a 79-80 D-12 MSA. I enjoy working on guitars and trying different set-ups, etc.

Kent Thompson wrote:

Single neck price new $800.00
Double neck price new $1000.00

Sound's good to me I'd even go as high as $1,200 for a new MSA Legend or Studio Pro U-12..

meanwhile, back in the real world....

When I started playing pedal steel, the simple fact was that I couldn't afford to buy one.

I didn't consider them to be over priced, I just simply couldn't afford the outlay.

So I designed and built a very basic 'rough and ready' instrument, purchasing only a pickup and a set of strings, total cost was less than £60.

If you have the ability, build a basic pull-release steel, without all the bells and whistles, they're really not that complicated.

Starting out on a cheap regular guitar is fine, for 400 you get an import that`ll serve you well for a few years.
If you build a pedal steel cheap it won`t serve you at all. It will only discourage you because it won`t stay in tune. I think it`s that simple: a PSG that works, will cost.
Some basic quality standards have to be met to make a properly working steel.
I don`t think you would buy a beginner parachute, would you ?
As it`s been pointed out, I think pedal steels are very reasonably priced. They are made by craftsmen, not assembly line workers.
For less than 4000 you get to choose the wood, colour, inlays,pedal position, special setup,special height, pick ups and finally a talk through the details on the phone with the builder, on his dime.
I may be wrong, but I don`t think 3500 will buy you that amount of personal attention with Fender or Gibson. With a craftsman in Minnesota, it will.