The Steel Guitar Forum

I am starting to research the viability of virtual guitar rigs. Amplitude, Native Instruments Komplete, Peavey's Revalver and others. I would like to run my live sound from a computer (whatever the software requires or an iPad) interface and further reduce the clutter and weight as I play 2-3 nights a week in two or more different groups. Don't need any stage volume as we monitor everything through IEM's (In-Ear Monitors) and I use a small mixer to blend my Steel's signal with the monitor mix received. The material we play is current covers (outlaw country & party country) and a set of originals with an occassional classic country tune upon requests written on the back of $20 bills or larger.



This would be a flexible enough rig to handle Pedal Steel, Lap Steels, Baritone and Acoustic Guitar. Hilton VP, Bobro pedal on the lap steels to dobro-nator the tone to simulate the resophonic sound.

I don't have any info for you, but I am lurking over your shoulder.
This could be as very interesting thread you've got going.

Is there any way to do what you are saying and avoid the slight time delay that the computer interface introduces?

I'll be interested to hear what you find out, but right off it's the latency issue that concerns me as well. If you weren't set on doing it on a standard computer you could look into an Axe-Fx; the latency there is extremely small and it is controllable with expression pedals and switches or a midi controller.

I recently got pro tools and was thinking about the same thing but I only would use it to record direct.

Tony

Hey Randall,
You might try a line 6 Pod live or XT live.

You can use a 'puter to create the patches for all of your instruments, but you wouldn't need it for the stage...computers running real time audio programs are not that reliable, even today.
The difference in sound between the pod stuff and anything you can get using a computer is not going to matter-especially in a live situation.

You can pick up a X3 live on craigs list, I see them all the time-I picked mine up for 100 bones.

Jay

I have used a POD XT and had shelved it for thin sounds. Just did not have the sparkle or the tone that I am wanting. I didn't care for the interface either.... My guitarist uses a rack mounted POD and a Line 6 midi(cat5) connected footswitch / Expression pedal bank. I am looking for the next generation. (and trying to do away with foot switches as my feet and legs are already engaged with my instrument

With current technology we should be able to design a system that
1 Sounds Great
2 Simplifies the setup by the use of a touchscreen computer (iPad) or similar and a digital (USB2) connected mixer add a powered monitor cabinet and voila Live Rig
3 Reduces the equipment needed to a minimum
4 (Optional)can utilize a midi-contoller foot switch / expression pedal bank

Primary Concerns are listed in the order of apparent importance:

Latency (delay from striking the strings to hear the sound reproduced) - this is a show stopper


Reliability - computer freezing up and locking you out of a sound in the middle of a performance forcing you to reinitialize the equipment and start again. I can handle rebooting between sets...but not during sets.

Cost iPad alone is $699 - Virtual Rig Software can run as much or more. If you are touring you would need a backup unit. a good amp is $1,000 bucks and then you have 1 or at most a couple of sounds. If it's a tube amp then you have all the tube amp issues and costs.

the advantages that I forsee...
Flexibility of sound - scores of amplifier set ups, multitudes of effects, thousands of configurations, storage of these sounds recalled instantly as needed. Creative control. Adds to the instrument's sound canvas rather than limits it to one amp and a few effects. Less weight - more portable. Better Sound from the steel guitar (as if that is possible)

http://www.fractalaudio.com/images/axe- ... tpanel.jpg

Till now this is IMHO the best on the market these days!

JJ

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/irig/moreinfo/moreinfo3.php

and this to connect to it:


http://www.ikmultimedia.com/irig/features/

Randall Meeker wrote:the advantages that I forsee...
Flexibility of sound - scores of amplifier set ups, multitudes of effects, thousands of configurations, storage of these sounds recalled instantly as needed. Creative control. Adds to the instrument's sound canvas rather than limits it to one amp and a few effects. Less weight - more portable. Better Sound from the steel guitar (as if that is possible)

You really should look into the Axe-Fx. I'll try to answer any questions you might have.

I just picked up the Line6 POD HD500 and I love it. The amp models are a vast improvement over the X3 or anything else out there (AxeFX, Eleven, etc.) I've been experimenting with modelers and laptops onstage for almost a decade and this is far and away the best sounding unit yet. It's the first time I've ever felt that a modeler has "feel". It's NOT the same or as good as a great tube amp but those are very heavy.

The high gain sounds can get a little fizzy but for most steel applications that shouldn't be a problem.

If you don't need a ton of effects they also make HD300 and HD400 models which have all the same amp models and plenty of effects.

Just go pick one up at Guitar Center and play with it for a while. If you like it then return it and buy one at an independent music store.

Adam Stein wrote:I just picked up the Line6 POD HD500 and I love it. The amp models are a vast improvement over the X3 or anything else out there (AxeFX, Eleven, etc.)

Regarding comparing the HD500 to the AxeFx, let me say that Adam's statement would be, at the very least, controversial. I've seen a number of comparisons, but none that reached the same conclusion.

This is not to denigrate the HD500, which is an improvement over the X3 and seems to be one of the better units at that price point.

let me say that Adam's statement would be, at the very least, controversial.

Agreed. I'll revise to say that having spent about 20 minutes with a AxeFX and owning an HD500, Eleven and several plug-ins it is my personal opinion that the Pod HD series sounds best. This is of course a subjective measure.

If you only had 20 minutes to spend with an AxeFx you simply haven't heard much of what it is capable of doing, particularly in light of the fact that the factory presets were created for a much earlier level of firmware where the models were quite different. It isn't even close to a plug and play type of a device; figure a month of learning curve before you really know enough to start building simple presets.

Does anyone have a review or personal experience in trying this combination for
Rehearsal, Recording and/or Live shows?

Just thought I'd reanimate this thread for a comment.
The other weekend I plugged in my old Digitech RP150 to my cheep little web book USB port running Audacity recording freeware. I couldn't measure any latency even after recording back through 4 or 5 times to multiply the latency to where I could see it. Must be under a couple milliseconds. I know the RP150 is old news, but it gets 'er done as far as EQ, reverb and delay. It also puts out direct to headphones.

Hi Randall, I've used most all of the amp and effect emulators in my studio and I love them a lot. If you had it all set up and didn't mind taking your laptop to the gig I think you could have one of the best sounding steel guitar rigs any where.

I have a few friends that use such setups and they sound great live maybe better live than recorded due to more club noise and just a less critical listening area.

Guitar rig 4 sounds the best to me but that will be up to the listener. The only reason I am not using it to gig with is I'm not doing much live gigging these days.

I have the different rigs for my i Phone and iPad and I will say I don't think they are caught up with the laptop and computer versions quite yet and mostly because of the iPod and iPad don"t quite have the processing power as a good laptop or computer. The iPad 2 is getting closer and might be there already I can't comment on it because I haven't tried any of the emulators on it yet but it is reported to be more powerful so you might get by with an iPad 2. Good luck and let me know how it turns out for ya!

Bob

The final add on will be the iPad/iPhone link lead exactly for this purpose.
There will be zero latency.

Contact mark@traxcircuits.co.uk

www.steelmixer.com

Hi David, that intrigues me can you elaborate on the "iPad/iPhone" "link lead" more I am so interested in this technology. Thanks

Bob

Bob. The steel mixer already does exactly what Randall asked. It can have FX from any pedals or even iPhone and iPad app FX without latency etc. Mark has just got to make the dock to 1/4 jack leads up to have this, the last and final modification to this amazing unit.

It already does mixing of FX at the steel guitar leg with any FX foot pedals mounted to the plate, and switchable pre- post reverb, delay adjustable with a footswitch to tap on the double mode, dobro also is now available. Remember, it powers up your electronic volume pedal and can power your Peterson tuner with an optional lead too. It doesn't have to be reverb and delay either, it will remotely control any pedals without breaking into the circuits of anything. It is a REALLY clever unit.

There is nothing else out there that does all of this. It has been many years in the design and Mark is getting many enquiries and orders too. This is an innovation in the steel guitar world.

by the way, I have already tried all the FX on an iPad, yes, they are good quality and good fun, and cheap, but completely unusable with latency as much as it is and that's why it will be great when this interface with iPhone to steel mixer arrives.

Mark does have a website www.steelmixer.com and can be contacted directly at mark@traxcircuits.co.uk

He is a very busy man working on many projects as he has his own electronics business but Mark will answer any of your enquiries if you drop him an email.

David Hartley

Thanks a bunch David, that's some killer stuff. I can see it being a staple of any steeler that uses effects.

Bob

In the world of electronics for the virtual steel guitar amp? Local band I played with most recently went to ampless stage all direct to a Presonus board that has plenty of monitor sub mixes controlled by smartphone or ipod so you can blend you own monitor mix on the fly. I am more interested in sound of the instrument than sound of the band. David Hartley you are amazing and have a great grasp on the subject - thank you for your posts.I appreciate everyone's input on this dynamic topic.

I like my boss gt001

I've been using the AxeFx in my live rig for years, essentially from it's beginning. It's the only thing I use for recording. In my opinion, there's nothing out there that comes close to the quality. I tried the Pod HD 500 and wound up returning it almost immediately but if I didn't already own the AxeFx, I can see the Pod working well.

There is one rather large caveat with the AxeFx that I would point out: You have to be at least moderately "computer" savvy and MUST enjoy tinkering and tweaking. Out of the box the AxeFx can be somewhat disappointing for a Pedal Steel player since it's heavily geared towards the 6 stringer. It does take some study and application to not only get the best from the unit but just to get something decent. The time and effort however is rewarded in spades. Also, it's a heck of alot lighter to carry than any of the hundreds of tube amps it accurately models.

I recently bought a Quilter Steelair, and I LOVE it as a quick grab and go, but I still keep coming back to the versatility and wealth of different tube amp tones and effects with the AxeFx.

Ive been messing around with Jamup Pro and an iRig and my iPhone/iPad

I haven't used it out in the wild, but for my practice room, its working really well.