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Topic: JBL speakers in a low watt tube amp |
Alex Piazza
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 11:38 am |
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| I was looking to put a 12" jbl in my hot rod deluxe. Its a 40 watt tube amp 8 ohms. I dont know wich model to look for. im assuming the d-120 would be the right way to go. Does anyone have info on power ratings and such? Will a high powered jbl change the dirty channel? |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 12:28 pm
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| Alex, a D-120F would handle a bit more power than than a D-120, but either one would do fine IMO. The voice coil is a bit larger in the D120F, which was an upgrade to handle more power. Many of the early Twin reverbs had a pair of D120F's in them, and those twins pushed 100 watts, some of the later models pushe 130 watts. Hope this helps a little for ya. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 2:50 pm
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| James Morehead wrote: |
| Alex, a D-120F would handle a bit more power than than a D-120, but either one would do fine IMO. The voice coil is a bit larger in the D120F, which was an upgrade to handle more power. |
Actually, the voice coils were identical in both versions. (Both were 4 inches.) The voice coil gap, however (the space in the magnet structure where the coil resides) was opened up about .005" in the "F" model to reduce rubbing (due to warping from over-tightening the speakers).
As long as you keep distortion down, the JBL D-120 will handle that amount of power (40w) just fine. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 4:10 pm
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Yeah, I ment to say voice coil "GAP". Thanx for the correction Donny, we appreciate your knowledge and your contributions for accuracy. 
The point was that the "F" series was designed to take more power without blowing as easy as the regular series speakers, due to tight of a voice coil fit. That's why JBL dropped the one line to go with a better lasting speaker, represented by the "F" series. At that time, amps were being made more and more powerful.
By the way, you still could not overtighten the "F" series, either, or you could pull the voice coil out of shape, causing rubbing, leading to a blown speaker. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 4:15 pm
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Yeah, *clean* an original D120 will probably handle it if the amp is not cranked up. The D120 is a 25-watt speaker, and an old one will probably handle 15 watts maxed out if it's never had a recone. A D120F should be fine - it's a 50-watt speaker with a little fudge factor, and unless it's a real old one should handle that amp, even distorted, without trouble...usually. YMMV. Personally , I'd think it'd be a terrible choice tone-wise (an HR has a pretty harsh top-end, and adding probably the harshest upper-frequency sounding guitar speaker ever made to the equation is going 180 degrees from what I'd be looking for). But if you want bite, I can just about guarantee you'll get plenty.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 5:55 pm
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Something that comes to bear on a speaker's ability to handle an amp's output is the type of signal it's seeing. Most speaker power ratings are based on smooth sine wave signals. The more an amp's signal is driven into distortion (approaching a square wave), the greater the heat that will be generated in the voice coil. This heat can soften, or even melt, the glues holding the voice coil in place.
In the 60's and 70's many rock, and blues, players would frequently blow high power speakers with lower power amps, and would wonder why. Well, that heavily distorted tone was causing extreme heat buildup in the voice coil, resulting in speaker failure.
So, the idea of matching a 50 watt amp with 50 watts worth of speakers doesn't always work out. I would usually advise at least doubling the speaker wattage for a given amp's wattage...100 watts, or more, of spkrs for a 50 watt amp...if the player wants to push the amp to it's limit.
Of course, steel players, on the other hand, usually want clean, undistorted, sounds, and lots of headroom, so we usually don't see such problems.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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Ken Fox
From:
Nashville GA USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 6:18 pm
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Mike hit it on the head! I use a D-130F in a 22 watt, 1965 Deluxe (non reverb model). I feel it would be easy to blow the JBL if I pushed it hard enough with this amp. So far it has lasted a lot of years (around 7 or more). I do not clip the amp, I play clean. I use effects pedals (compressor) for a bit more of a overdriven tube tone.
I have tried a JBL in a Hot Rod Deluxe. It really did not help the amp that much, in my opinion.
I have modded many of the Hot Rod Deluxe and Deville amps tone stacks and found that a better solution than a speaker change.
It is a simple mod and can be found at:
http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/jvmods.html#bass |
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Alex Piazza
From:
Arkansas, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 8:37 pm
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| so the jbl doesnt sound like the right fit for the hot rod. Ive had one that sounded great with the jensen p12n. i might try that again. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 9 Sep 2007 8:51 pm
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I definitely blew up an old JBL D-130F playing pedal steel with a '65 Deluxe Reverb. The speaker was in a small, separate cabinet. It sure sounded great until one night - poof, it just went dead. I prefer an old EV SRO speaker in a Deluxe Reverb, and if it was a 40-watt Hot Rod Dcluxe, I'd probably go for a big ole' EVM-12L or something like that.
Definitely - saturation distortion puts a heavy load on a speaker. If you push it into near-square-wave mode, the speaker is pushed full-forward for half the cycle, and then suddenly flips to pushed full-back for the other half, and so on. This is real tough on speakers - both the high duty cycle and the large impulsive change every half cycle.
In my case, I never played distorted at all with this speaker. I used it for fairly quiet gigs, and I doubt the amp was ever above 3 or 4 with a lower-gain 5751 tube. But the wide frequency range and sustain quality of the pedal steel probably put quite a bit of heat on the voice coil. I know it died in the middle of a song with a lot of long, sustained chords - I remember because I was in the middle of a high-profile solo when it went dead. Deluxe Reverbs may only say 20 watts, but it's the loudest 20 watts I've ever heard.
I totally agree on a tone stack change for the Hot Rod Deluxe. I think they're pretty harsh stock, just my opinion.
Hey just saw your post - I love Jensen P12N speakers, but I'd also be afraid of blowing it up with pedal steel into a 40-watt amp. It'll sound nice and warm, but man, those old ones can blow real easily. Definitely been there, done that, mostly with guitar, again with a little 20-watt Deluxe Reverb. I agree with the advice about speaker power handling capability being at least double the rated amp power. |
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Andy Zynda
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 10 Sep 2007 5:38 am jensen
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The new Jensen ReIssue P12K would be a great choice.
Higher power rating, and darker than the JBL.
(Note; Jensen never made a P12K. The K is a P12N, with a heavier duty voice coil)
-andy- |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2007 6:20 am
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I've got a pair of D120f's that I had re-coned back in the late '80s. I'm assuming it was a K120 cone kit in them. I've beaten the crap out of those speakers over the years. They've be slammed with lots of power, but mostly used in a Fender Deluxe Reverb, but driven very hard much of the time. These speakers are still humming right along, 20 years after their recones. Still my favorite all around 12" speaker. I don't use a lot of low end in my guitar tone, so maybe that's why they've survived so long. But it surely leads me to believe that one like mine with the higher power cone kit could easily handle a Hot Rod Deluxe.
Brad |
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Dave McCarthy
From:
Newfoundland, Canada
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 11:38 am
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| Just picked up a minty USA version Hot rod deluxe. Gonna throw a Jbl D-120F at it. I wonder will it physically fit in the cab? |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 21 Dec 2010 4:56 am
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Besides increased clarity of tone the JBL adds over 9dB to the output, better than double the volume per watt over the stock Eminence and Jensen units, which means you will run the amp lower and cleaner as well. If this is your cup of tea then guzzle it down, you're home...
I put a K120 into a Blues Deluse Reissue and it's now my favorite practice/recording/small gig amp, got clean if you want it but when it's time for some overdrive oh baby I like it like that! |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 9:06 am
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I have used an EV12L and a Celestion Vintage 30 in a Blues Deluxe, which is similar to the Hot Rod Deluxe, and both sounded much better than the stock speaker.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Lefty
From:
Grayson, Ga.
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Posted 24 Dec 2010 4:54 am
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Weber has some good speakers, and a large selection.
It depends on the sound you are loking for.
I had two Hot Rod deluxes, and as Jim stated they did have a lot of high end. I ran the treble at about 3.
The Weber California 12 is a JBL D120 knock off. A paper dust cap cuts the harsh high end a good bit and they sound pretty good to my ears. I have a pair in a 2-12 cabinet that I use with a 67 Showman head and it is a great sound. Those can handle the power with no problem.
Lefty |
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