The Steel Guitar Forum

I have a question on StroboFlip Sweetened Tunings E9th.

Does anyone here know exactly what the numbers are for each string open & also the standard Emmons changes on the E9th neck?
They are not in the manual & I am curious to know.
Surely someone has figured this out already so I do not have to.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to read this & give any help you can.
Merry Christmas to all..
Ron

Tuning theory is such a can of wriggly things .I don't know anything about the Strobobot but Tom Bradshaw makes a lot of sense here :


http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=197268

They can be found on page 35 of the manual, if yours is the same as mine. But here are the numbers:

PSG-SE9:
[tab]
C -17.8
C# -5.9
D +5.9
D# -3.9
E +9.8
F -17.8
F# +5.9
G +5.9
G# -3.9
A +3.9
A# +9.8
B +7.9
[/tab]
PSG-OE9
[tab]
C -27.6
C# -15.7
D -3.9
D# -13.7
E 0.0
F -27.6
F# -3.9
G -3.9
G# -13.7
A -5.9
A# 0.0
B -1.9
[/tab]

Here I listed the same tunings in order circle-of-fifths so you can easily see the widths of intervals. I think I did this once before with some Newman temperaments that were similar to these.
The PSG-OE9 is the same as PSG-SE9 except that every note is 9.8 cents higher, so widths of all the intervals are the same.
Several unusual things stand out about these temperaments:
1. Widths of intervals vary wildly with no apparent method
2. The "F" and "C" notes are tempered as E# and B# so I copied them at the end if the list where it is easy to see the intervals below them. I don't think anybody would use them as F and C !
3. I think A# = +9.8 must be a typo. Surely you mean -9.8 !
4. Whoever tunes this way never plays F# and C# together.
5. Why is the interval from A to E so wide? You would want to use this one a lot.
[tab]
SG-SE9:

width of fifth interval width of major third
F -17.8 F to C = 700 cents F to A = 421.7 cents
C -17.8 C to G = 723.7 cents C to E = 427.6 cents
G +5.9 G to D = 700 cents G to B = 402 cents
D +5.9 D to A = 698 cents D to F# = 400 cents
A +3.9 A to E = 705.9 cents A to C# = 390.2 cents
E +9.8 E to B = 698.1 cents E to G# = 386.3 cents
B +7.9 B to F# = 698 cents B to D# = 388.2 cents
F# +5.9 F# to C# = 688.2 cents F# to A# = 403.9 cents
C# -5.9 C# to G# = 698 cents C# to E# = 388.1 cents
G# -3.9 G# to D# = 700 cents G# to B# = 386.1 cents
D# -3.9 D# to A# = 713.7 cents
A# +9.8 A# to E# = 672.4 cents
E# -17.8 E# to B# = 700 cents
B# -17.8
[/tab]
Obviously you would never play (F,A) or (C,E) together. Look at the width of those major thirds! You could not play an A minor triad on open strings. The "C" is a B#, and you could play a nice sweet G# major triad on open strings.
=========================================================================
Assuming that A#=+9.8 is a typo, and that you meant to type A#=-9.8, here is the same table corrected. Now you can actually play A# with other notes.
[tab]
G +5.9 G to D = 700 cents G to B = 402 cents
D +5.9 D to A = 698 cents D to F# = 400 cents
A +3.9 A to E = 705.9 cents A to C# = 390.2 cents
E +9.8 E to B = 698.1 cents E to G# = 386.3 cents
B +7.9 B to F# = 698 cents B to D# = 388.2 cents
F# +5.9 F# to C# = 688.2 cents F# to A# = 384.3 cents
C# -5.9 C# to G# = 698 cents C# to E# = 388.1 cents
G# -3.9 G# to D# = 700 cents G# to B# = 386.1 cents
D# -3.9 D# to A# = 694.1 cents
A# -9.8 A# to E# = 692 cents
E# -17.8 E# to B# = 700 cents
B# -17.8 [/tab]
Also I left out "F" and "C" because you would not use them in this temperament.

5. Why is the interval from A to E so wide? You would want to use this one a lot.

Because of the so-called "cabinet drop" effect. The A note is a pedaled note on E9th. When the pedals are pressed the E string detunes slightly, narrowing the interval to a more acceptable value.

4. Whoever tunes this way never plays F# and C# together.

The F# to C# interval is also corrected somewhat by "cabinet drop", though usually not enough to make it sound exactly in tune. That's why a lot of people have compensator pulls on their F# strings.

Also, that F# tuning doesn't work at all for the "C" pedal. That's one of the problems with the StroboFlip - it doesn't accommodate the "two different F#'s" that many steel players use. You still have to tune your "C" pedal by ear.

Thanks to all who responded to this thread.
All of you gentlemen have answered my questions.
Great discussion there between Earnest & b0b!!
I could hear the difference & it just did not sound right to my ears = close but just not right.
Now I understand why - Thanks Much.
Ron

E.B said"

3. I think A# = +9.8 must be a typo. Surely you mean -9.8 !
4. Whoever tunes this way never plays F# and C# together.
5. Why is the interval from A to E so wide? You would want to use this one a lot.

# 3. The Peterson manual says the A# is +9.8 (actually they don't put the + sign in, I did for clarity, but the manual does NOT have a minus sign in front of the A# value of 9.8). Not saying it is not a mis-print. All values posted came from the manual.

# 4. I use the C# and F# together quite often. Sounds OK to me. Although , I do sometimes tweak things.

# 5. Don't know, but the presets sound fine on my guitar.

Bob,
Thanks for explaining the Stroboflip and tuning the E9 C pedal. I though it was just me...whenever I tune the 4th string E-F# C pedal change with the stroboflip then play a BC pedals down minor chord it's terrible, I end up having to tune that one by ear....

Glad it's not just me.