Do any steel players sub-vocalize when they play?

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

I was listening a fantastic record by the jazz piano player Earl Garner the other day. He grunted and groaned while played. So do a fair number of keyboard players including Glenn Gould and Keith Jarrett. Jarrett takes this to the extreme and for me, makes some of his records unlistenable. Herb Ellis and a lot of other guitarist move their mouths even if no sound comes out. Do steel players do this?

Found this interesting viewpoint on a blog ....

I would have to agree that Jarrett's vocalizing is a distraction and detraction from his recorded output. He's a wonderfully inventive and influential player and probably would no sooner abandon the way he achieves his creativity then cut off his hands. For me, however I would say this is the equivalent of putting your painting pallet right on top of your painting. Some people like the realism. I don't. He describes the process of improvising as "explosive" where it just comes out of him. I can understand this but for my money I feel that keeping a lid on it with a more latent energy--ever so slightly is the way to go in terms of getting the best art out. For example my favorite recording of his is Whisper Not. I feel like he manages that balance a little better on that record.

This is going out on a limb but I sometimes feel that his indulgences get the better of him and that when he vocalizes it is really "siphoning" out the music power happening in his mind through his mouth-- which to me is not a positive. At least ideally everything should be happening in the head and direct to the fingers.

I do believe however that vocalizing --especially when practicing is an important step in establishing a connection and synergy with what you are really trying to say. But it's just a step and you shouldn't do it when you perform because I don't believe it shows you at your best-- I believe most of us do it when we are struggling to get in step with the music. The next step is to be fully connected and not sing. I think most of us have experienced the issue of trying to self-transcribe what we are really hearing. It then becomes a dance in trying to duplicate what you are singing and then realizing that your vocal talents are not getting the notes right. But the main goal there is indisputable, a certain connection between your mind and your hands. Once you have it --it's an exciting feeling within your belly. It's treacherous with the piano because it's very easy to follow your fingers and then singing becomes an after the fact echo.

Very difficult indeed. But it is central.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I sing to myself on stage to clarify ideas. I also practice singing something and then playing it as a part of my routine. It helps to make my playing more concise.
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

I think what Jarrett and many others do helps them go beyond the limited expressive range of their instruments and helps them to get closer to what they are going desire to hear. In other words, they can avoid playing just "piano-isms" or licks or whatever and just purely improvise. Keith is a pure improviser. Not every jazz musician is.

I believe I've heard Buddy do a little of that, but I could be mistaken. I don't believe I've ever heard a steel player improvise to the level of Keith Jarrett or Bud Powell, though--to be a completely free improviser on steel would involve overcoming every possible physical limitation of the instrument. But what the steel does have going for it is expression--I think only the human voice, bowed strings or wind instruments can top it.

When I improvise, I tend to hold my breath. it helps me really focus and lets me know if I've been playing for too long. Laughing

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Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I do a little bit of "grunting and groaning" when I play. Fortunately I have an Amp so no one can hear it! Cool

One time in a recording studio the other players noticed it when I did an overdub using headphones. It was quiet in the room, and my steel was patched direct to the board, so the other players could hear every sound I made when I played... and I could only hear the music in the headphones. After the overdub the fiddle player had a big smile on his face and said to me "You should hear the sounds you make when you play! ...It's Hilarious!"
I'm not sure how I feel about that! Neutral

Anyway, like Mike said, I think it helps the player to reach for the sounds he imagines in his mind. I did a few jazz gigs years ago with an upright bass player who made all kinds of bizarre noises who he played. His bass Solos could barely be heard over his grunting and hissing!
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Bill Dobkins · From: Rolla Missouri, USA

I do when I'm with the band and some at shows but shows are harder because it's unrehersed. I have heard Buddy E sing before and he is very good. The best Steel,Singer combo I've heard would be Scotty Henderson. A great Steeler and a great singer. Very under rated on both counts.
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I scream about the pay.

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

I was going to find a Keith Jarrett clip so I could join the chorus of jokes and make a smart ass remark about his grunts, groans and orgasmic faces. Well, I randomly clicked on this one and after it was over I couldn't even click the mouse for about 30 seconds. It's as if he was channeling pure music or painting the room with the color "major." I am humbled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPqK1JJOFxw

Brett Day · From: Pickens, SC

I sing and play steel when I play steel shows.

Brett

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

interesting question and I don't know if I do sing along but,,

I know a drummer that makes some seriously bizarre faces when he plays.. it's almost psychotic..

Elton Smith · From: Texas, USA

I've done that and did not realize I was doing it.It's like putting ear plugs in and taking them out when you need to hear something then putting them back in.It blocks out the outside sound.If that makes any sense.
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Dan Galysh · From: Hendersonville, Tennessee, USA

I've worked with some grunting drummers. Funny.

Thomas Ludwig · From: Augsburg, Germany

I didn't knew that I was doing it. I realized it when I was listing to my rehearsal recording. Sounds annoying.

Jim Hartley · From: SC/TN

Well, since drummers have been brought into the mix, I'll tell you what I do sometimes. At one time, I played more bass than drums, and I still think like a bass player. Many times, if I'm not singing, I catch myself singing bass lines under my breath. I'm not sure if anybody else notices, that might look a bit wierd. I don't know for sure, but I probably grunt and make faces too.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Moving from the auditory to the visual ..... the "Guitar Face" blog ....

http://blog.wfmu.org/photos/guitar_face/index.html

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I played a Patsy Cline show with a piano player who hummed into the mic all the time.
'Drove us all nuts.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

I've noticed that I sometimes sing along, but only with a band that has the arrangements and my solos preplanned and played the same every time.

I think it subconsciously helps me to remember what I have to play.

In bands where I'm free to improvise the singing never happens.

Interesting....

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

I can sing along with my 6-string when I'm improvising. Not on steel though.

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

Andy, i saw #GF04 and thought that dude should give Carlos Santana back his face.. then there it was on GF06.. Laughing

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

I've seen Jarrett live and been blown away by him, to the point that I didn't notice it. I think it's far more annoying when you listen to a recording. He's "in the moment", and you're not.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I posted this old "Grunting Thread" some time ago. I know I do it, and I was listening to a Lionel Hampton record where he almost as loud as his vibes.

Interesting.

After the PC ordeal a few years ago I find myself pissing my pants more if I "sub vocalize"... I've tried to cut down on it some......

Smile

EJL

John Alexander · Posted 24 Jan 2011 9:55 pm

Clete Ritta · From: San Antonio, Texas

I always have to laugh when I hear Ice Cakes
by the Dixie Dregs.
Rod Morgenstein is credited with vocals.
His ad lib grunts were obviously unavoidable in the mix.

Clete

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