The Steel Guitar Forum

I have been thinking of adding the B to BbV knee lever and am a little sketchy as to what changes this can add. Could someone please clarify what chords I can achieve with this addition? I read somewhere that It will get a minor 7th with it engaged and the A&B pedals down. Is this correct, and if so what are the other chords it creates?I appreciate any help here , Thanks Dana

Dana,yes the minor chord with A&B down.You can get a II chord with out pedals.

Stu, Ok, so lets say for example at the third fret open (G)with the A&B pedals down plus the BbV lever engaged I can get a C minor chord? At the third fret without pedals with the BbV lever engaged I get an A minor seventh? Is this correct? any thing else? What do I get If I push the B lever down with the BbV lever engaged? Would this be a D major 7?Or a dominant 7? I'm just tryin to get clarification. Thanks

I like the chords you can get with the V lever, but maybe more so in other situations. i.e. Sometimes engaging A, B & V can be a smoother (or just cooler sounding) transition to where you're going than using the E lever, and vise versa. Also, it can be handy if you lower your second string to C# a lot. p.s The chord Stu was referring to is a dominant 9th, not minor. You could call it a five of five, or II (not ii). There's another A9 with pedals A, B & lever V on fret 7 with the root on string 9.

For the II dominant 9th chord voicings you get on strings 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 (and 10 if the V lever is lowering it) with the V lever engaged and pedals up, you can get all the same notes by just moving the bar down a fret to lower the B strings without engaging the V lever, and simultaneously engaging pedal B and the F lever to bring the E and G# strings back up a half step. Sometimes that's a useful alternative - especially if you don't have the V lever yet!

However, lowering the B string(s) with the lever is usually handier in this context because the 2nd and 7th strings are then also in the mode of the chord, as is the 5th string without the V lever, or with the A pedal down, so there are a lot of licks and passages that lie right there, or in combination with the notes that are 2 frets higher.

Another use of the V lever I stumbled on recently is the 3 note 13th chord voicing you can get with the V lever and pedal B, on strings 3,4 and 5. Example, play a G triad on these strings at fret 3, then slide to fret 2 and engage the V lever and pedal B, to get a D13th. Then maybe slide down another fret and engage the F lever only to change it to a plain D7.

I hope I got all the strings and pedals named correctly, since I don't actually play E9, but all these changes work about the same on the Bb6.

Dana Blodgett wrote:Stu, Ok, so lets say for example at the third fret open (G)with the A&B pedals down plus the BbV lever engaged I can get a C minor chord? At the third fret without pedals with the BbV lever engaged I get an A minor seventh? Is this correct? any thing else? What do I get If I push the B lever down with the BbV lever engaged? Would this be a D major 7?Or a dominant 7? I'm just tryin to get clarification. Thanks

Dana,Third fret without pedals give you an A7th,I'm not as smart as some of these other folks but that's the way I use it!

you also get a well voiced diminished chord w: A & B + E ( lowers 4 & 8 a half tone) & V lever

Thanks guys , I appreciate all the input here, This seems like a very useful change that I wasn't aware of. I want to add this, and it seems for me and my set-up(Emmons)that I am considering the left knee V. I know , I know I've read the threads before about where it belongs but I don't want to move four other knee levers just to add this change! I think it is more important to have the change and adapt to it if possible. Does anyone have it on a lever that pushes forward, say than up? Would this work? I am a big fan of simplicity. Thanks again to all who have jumped in here on this thread and have a happy thanksgiving to everyone out there.

I think you'll find that left knee vertical is where (I'm just guessin') 75% of E9 players who have 5 or more levers have that change. It has been a standard change for decades.

Dana, one other thing to know is that if you play an antique guitar (like mine) the V lever may not combine with the A pedal to produce an in-tune note. Mine doesn't. My understanding is that this is what tuneable "splits" are all about, which I don't have. Without that, some of the minor and diminished chords probably don't work, but A7th at the third fret still does work.

Larry and John, Thanks for the input. I am tryin to see if I can make the changes with out this lever by different grips and or positions.

IF you are looking at the X lever to make chords you are looking at it incorrectly. It's value lays as allowing 3 scale notes on the 5th string ( and 10th) Natural, above and below. The ability to use these 5th string scale notes along with the 8th string notes ( 3 scale notes ,( natural, above and below ) allow you to embellish on any solo, any melody etc...

Can it allow for additional chord voicing's ? sure, but chords come from scales...not the other way around.

here's two examples in use

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvtGqa6l ... playnext=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY3aKxc6 ... re=related

I would suggest "careful placement" of the NEW "V" lever, so it is easily accessible when using it with the E raises and lowers.
Good luck
Rick

Tony and Rick, , tryin to learn as much as possible before I add on... Mahalo for the info guys!Probably put on the left with the E's. Dana

Yes standard placement is between the two E Levers , but

these days, whats standard ? I think the trick is as long as you can grab the lever with other pulls then all will be fine...

t