another "3rd string breakage" thread

[Brennan Mangan]

I see this is a common problem and I feel as though I've tried all of the obvious tips mentioned in previous threads (rotated/cleaned roller, checked for burrs, smoothed finger with fine grit paper, wrapped carefully a good number of times, stretched string, brought it up to tune slowly) but to no avail.

I'm playing a Sierra U12 with a keyed head. I've been using the plain electric D'Addario 11's the local shop sells. After retrieving the broken string from across the room and bandaging my bloodied knuckles, I put it back in place. It seems the string keeps breaking somewhere between the roller and the peg. Although, one time it broke down at the roller, which makes me think it's a tension issue. Everything is in tune and the string isn't being raised any more than it should. The only thing I think I've really adjusted was the pedal height.

Is the brand/variety of sting crucial here? Am I foolish to think I can get away with cheapie singles?

The boys in the band are anxious to get this thing back in business, the Dobro just ain't cuttin' it.

[Gary Cosden]

D'Addarios are not "cheapo" strings at all. I have used D'Addario .012s for a 3rd string many times on my Sierra keyless with a 25" scale. I really think you have another issue here besides the brand of string although I am not sure what it could be. Any chance you put a slight kink in the string while putting it on or maybe have an issue with the roller moving freely?

[Jerry Overstreet]

It's normal for strings, especially 3rds, to break at the bridge roller from fatigue after a few gigs or several hours.

Breaking at the tuning key generally is caused by a burr on a tuning key or possibly a sticking nut roller.

If, as you say, they are breaking mainly in the middle of the guitar versus either nut or bridge, I would suspect you have a bad batch of strings.

Of course check the nut roller for sticking and the bridge roller for burrs, but if it were me, I'd try strings from a different run if you can. You can have bad strings in all brands, regardless of what anyone tells you.

[Bobbe Seymour]

Believe me boys, it's not the guitar, it IS the strings. Try Cobra Coils and watch the problem go away.

Call me:615 822 5555
Bobbe

[C Dixon]

Believe me boys, it's not the guitar, it IS the strings. Try Cobra Coils and watch the problem go away.

Call me:615 822 5555
Bobbe

Amen Bobbe,

Folks He doth KNOW from whence he speaks. But he won't tell me where the sound comes from on an Emmons'P/P. He will only state, "nope that is not it!" No matter whucha say is causing it "

Love ya man.

c.

[Curt Langston]

I'm playing a Sierra U12 with a keyed head.

That is the reason for the string breakage IMHO.

Maybe the Cobra Coils will help.

It's normal for strings, especially 3rds, to break at the bridge roller from fatigue after a few gigs or several hours.

It doesn't have to be the norm.

[Brad Malone]

I have my Williams (600 series) for over three years and have not broken any strings..that changer design bends the string less...best steel I ever had.

[John Clark]

SEVERAL YEARS BACK, RIGHT BEFORE THE GIG I DECIDED TO CHANGE MY 11. I HAD SEVEN OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED STRINGS IN MY PACKASEAT(D'ADARRIO). I BROKE SIX IN A ROW BEFORE THEY GOT UP TO PITCH. THE SEVENTH ONE HELD. I SWITCHED TO ANOTHER BRAND AND HAD NO MORE PROBLEMS. IT'S PROBABLY THE STRINGS.

[Stephen Cordingley]

you can get reinforced 3rd strings...I think this is for breakage down by the changer
I've been breaking a few too; I'm wondering if it's just that I'm actually putting in some hours of playing, and simply need to stock up on reinforced 12's for the inevitable breakage...?

[John Clark]

I USE A REINFORCED 11 AND 17. I KNOW EVERY STEEL IS DIFFERENT AND PLAYERS PLAY DIFFERENTLY, BUT I CHANGE MY 11 AFTER 4 SHOWS, AND THE 17 AFTER 7 SHOWS. THIS MIGHT SOUND LIKE OVERKILL, BUT I'VE PLAYED OVER 2000 SHOWS WITH THE GROUP I'M WITH NOW, AND {KNOCK ON WOOD} HAVEN'T EVER BROKEN A STRING ON STAGE.

[C Dixon]

I have my Williams (600 series) for over three years and have not broken any strings..that changer design bends the string less...best steel I ever had.

Yes Brad, you are correct.

The Williams 600 PSG does indeed have a radically new changer finger design.

It is one of 3 PSG's in the world, that did something about the subject malady.

Bill Rudolph cures it by shaping the top of the changer fingers to a more horizontal shape; rather than the typical round shape.

Excels and Anapegs go even further: They do not bend the strings hardly at all, to change pitch. Rather; they pull the strings in an almost straight line.

They simply do NOT break strings. If a string breaks before it goes dead, you can be assured it was defective from the get go.

May Jesus bless these PSG manufacturers, who are not willing to rest on the "status quo"; but think of ever better ways to make our lives better,

c.

[Paul Crawford]

I had a guitar a few years ago that ate 3 strings no matter what I tried. After going through about every brand, I ended up trying a .12 instead of my normal .11s just because I ran out one day. The thing last 3 times as long as anything I'd tried. I still don't know why, but it worked. I switched gauges and the problem never came back.

Some individual guitars just seem to like some gauges or brands better than others. On the other hand I've got an old P/P that Mike Cass set up for me and I don't recall that I've ever broken a string on that guitar. That's why we love these beasts so much, they all have their own personality.

[John Cadeau]

I haven't broken a string on my steel in about three years. I play it every day, and do two or three four hour gigs on most weekends. I'm using the Jagwire Tommy White set with the .0115 third string. And I don't change my strings as often as I should.

JC

[Dave Magram]

Brennan,

I gave up on D'Addarios for spares many years ago because the 3rds would invariably break as soon as I put them on.
I switched to Ernie Balls 3rds for spares--and no problem with 3rds breaking.
I have used GHS, Emmons brand strings, and Cobra Coils--and no problem with 3rds breaking.
I now use Jagwires from the SGF--and no problem with 3rds breaking.

Dave

[Tony Prior]

The Pedal Steel is a PHYSICS thing, understanding the instrument and mechanics can go the WHOLE mile in solving issues.

I wouldn't say that it is the string 100% of the time , but mostly it is, weak ball joint, fatigue etc...

I order from Bobbe packs of spares and that's the end of that. I change the 3rd and the 5th every weekend gig...

3rd string issues come as a result of basically three things in my limited 35 years at this..



1--bad string, old or tired string, worn out, been on the guitar too long. This is 90% of the issues..

2--some sort of snag/burr etc on bridge and / or roller nut not turning etc...

3--guitar not set up correctly for the pull

[Ken Metcalf]

I change the 3rd string after 12 hours of playing time approx.
then 3rd-5th strings after 12 more hours...
Then the whole set.
A dozen strings are cheap and if you do it more often you get quicker at it.
My PSG that sits at home, I don't change and they last a long time but I don't like changing a 3rd string on a gig if possible.

[Thom Ferman]

With Ernie Ball strings I was up to changing the 3rd and 5th strings every week and changing all strings once a month because of breakage. I tried Bobbe's Cobra Coils and haven't broken a string yet. I'm going on two months, no broken strings, still sounds lively. I feel like I need to change strings out of guilt more than anything else now

[Brad Malone]

Yes Brad, you are correct.

The Williams 600 PSG does indeed have a radically new changer finger design.

It is one of 3 PSG's in the world, that did something about the subject malady.

Bill Rudolph cures it by shaping the top of the changer fingers to a more horizontal shape; rather than the typical round shape.

Excels and Anapegs go even further: They do not bend the strings hardly at all, to change pitch. Rather; they pull the strings in an almost straight line.

They simply do NOT break strings. If a string breaks before it goes dead, you can be assured it was defective from the get go.

May Jesus bless these PSG manufacturers, who are not willing to rest on the "status quo"; but think of ever better ways to make our lives better,<<

Carl, thank you very much for your knowlegeable post. The Excel and the Williams steels are the only ones that I would consider buying at this time because of their advanced changer design..too bad Anapeg is not available...yes, Bill Rudolph is a great builder and Excel is also great..IMHO..Carl, thanks again for all your great posts...I really enjoy all your great information..God Bless.

[C Dixon]

[Richard Sinkler]

I use Jagwires, and I hardly ever break a string. I only change them every 2 or 3 months, and I play no less than twice a week and very often 4 times a week. Sometimes I will change the 3rd and 5th if I think I am getting close to breaking one. I can often tell when they are going to go by the sound of the string changing (kind of like a "zinging" type sound) or I notice tuning instability.

Does the string break when you first put it on and try to bring it up to pitch? If so, what I do most of the time is, put the strings on a day before I need to play the guitar, bring the 3rd string up to F#. Let it sit for a while (hours). Bring it up to G# and let it sit overnight. The next day I tune the pedal to pitch. I NEVER break a string during installation using this approach. When I try to bring it up to pitch and tune the pull all in one shot, I probably have a 25% fail rate on the string, no matter what brand.

Just a little amusing thingie, I had a Williams 600 (great guitar by the way) for a couple of years, and I broke more strings (admittedly only a few) on it than I have on my 11 year old Carter, and I played the Carter as my main gigging guitar.

It seems the string keeps breaking somewhere between the roller and the peg. Although, one time it broke down at the roller, which makes me think it's a tension issue.

I read this to mean between the roller nut and the tuning key. I don't think I have ever seen a string break there. Usually the changer finger or the hole in the tuning peg. Try a different brand for the 3rd as was suggested. Maybe try a .010, though you probably won't like the sound.

[Stuart Legg]

Get your strings from b0b.
Those singles you buy at your local music store have been sitting there naked in a open box so long they have oxidized. A lot of those strings break while your putting them on or the first time you mash a pedal.

[C Dixon]

Get your strings from b0b.
Those singles you buy at your local music store have been sitting there naked in a open box so long they have oxidized. A lot of those strings break while your putting them on or the first time you mash a pedal.

Amen amen and amen!

Besides it helps make this awesome forum a reality.

Remember forumites, it COSTS real money to run a website. Keep this in mind folks. Who among you would want to see this go off the air.

May Jesus richly bless b0b, for what he has always so UN selfishly done,

c.

[Curt Langston]

All of the above scenarios is but a few of the reasons that I will only buy a keyless guitar.

I know that some do not like the looks, but to me they look very smart.

Just my opinion.

[C Dixon]

All of the above scenarios is but a few of the reasons that I will only buy a keyless guitar.

I know that some do not like the looks, but to me they look very smart.

Just my opinion.

Curt,

I abhored (and still do) the look of keyless, soooooo I asked Mitsuo to make my keless the SAME length as a keyed guitar. Also, "please make the pedals/knee levers location and spacing exactly as in my Emmons' LeGrande

Look how he achieved that. It is gorgeous and very convenient:












"To Each his Own"

c.

[Curt Langston]

Wow carl, that is one very good looking, and smartly designed steel!