Changing from Day to Emmons setup

David Nutt · Post by **David Nutt** » 16 Sep 2010 11:37 am

Guys,
After playing with Day setup/copedent for quite a few years, I have just taken delivery of an Emmons D10 P/P the current set up is Emmons. I have over the years sat at a few guitars with Emmons setup and found it a bit confusing. Purely as a challenge,and because it opens up more possibilities with available tab, I'm of a mind to have a go at this setup.
How many of you guys have changed setups after playing a while? certainly difficult at first,are there any tips? did you stay with it or revert back to your original setup?
Dave.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 16 Sep 2010 11:51 am

David,
For me, I started out Emmons then went to Day. Unfortunately I've gotten where I can play both because of having to demonstrate steels. IMHO- it isn't that bad. It will probably take you a couple of weeks to get comfortable with it. JUST GIVE YOURSELF a little time. Old habits are hard to break.

How I got used to it, was just worked with the pedals by themselves for a week, then I added the knees.

Everybody is different, I promise you will get used to it if you will give yourself some time.

To me know, it's no different than having a stick shift on the column and one in the floor. I just change my mind set. At least that works for me,

Dan

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Sep 2010 12:05 pm

I have over the years sat at a few guitars with Emmons setup and found it a bit confusing. Purely as a challenge,and because it opens up more possibilities with available tab, I'm of a mind to have a go at this setup.

As far as tab and instructional materials, it shouldn't make any difference if you play Day or Emmons. The same basic changes found in tab will be there no matter what pedal setup you use.

David Nutt · Post by **David Nutt** » 16 Sep 2010 12:13 pm

Dan
Thanks,
I will take your advice and stick with it, i'll try to resist temptation to revert back to the comfort zone.
Can I ask why you changed from Emmons to Day?
Over here in the UK there's a higher percentage of Day setups, back in the 70s one of our original importers set them up that way,seems like it became the accepted setup.
Dave.

David Nutt · Post by **David Nutt** » 16 Sep 2010 12:21 pm

Richard Sinkler wrote:
I have over the years sat at a few guitars with Emmons setup and found it a bit confusing. Purely as a challenge,and because it opens up more possibilities with available tab, I'm of a mind to have a go at this setup.
As far as tab and instructional materials, it shouldn't make any difference if you play Day or Emmons. The same basic changes found in tab will be there no matter what pedal setup you use.

Richard
Thanks for responding.
Point taken.
Dave

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 16 Sep 2010 1:08 pm

David,
I switched because I went to playing Zane Beck's Tuning. Zane uses a partial Day & partial Emmons setup. Here is an example of how Zane's Setup would look like if you used it on a E9.

Forget everything else except the green highlight. Zane Beck took pedal 2 & 3 from Day and moved it and made it pedal 1 & 2. Move the C# over to pedal 2 and left the F# on pedal 3. What this allows is a smooth flow on the pedals allowing for you to push the outside of the foot down on 1, let the foot fall to 2. Then you can do the same for pedal 2 & 3.

Zane took pedals 2 & 3 from Day and made that the starting point.

That's how I got into the Day mindset. There are parts of both, the Emmons and Day that I like. I feel like Zane took the best of both worlds, IMHO.

Don't let yourself get into the mind set that you can't do it. If that is what you want go for it. I had to make some changes when I went to Zane King's copedent which is based off of Zane Becks. It took me about a week to get comfortable with the change.

You might find you like the Emmons better, and after a while if not you can always change it. Give it a Month before you do anything, I think you'll be surprised.

Dan

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 16 Sep 2010 1:35 pm

I don't see the point of having the 'A' pedal (pedal 2 in your copedent) raising the sixth string a semitone.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 16 Sep 2010 1:44 pm

I gives a nice inversion of a Major seventh, open it's a very useable "A" maj7

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Sep 2010 2:30 pm

Not knowing what style of music Dan plays, this stuff might not matter. I know it wouldn't work for me. I agree with Richard B. about pedal 2.

Dan... I assume there are more pedals and levers than what you posted. It is an interesting copedent.

I gives a nice inversion of a Major seventh, open it's a very useable "A" maj7

Basil, I have often wondered how that maj7 would sound. I try using the first string raised to G# for the maj7, but it just doesn't feel comfortable. I would miss the C#min and major (with E-F lever) on strings 5, 6 &8.

Forget everything else except the green highlight. Zane Beck took pedal 2 & 3 from Day and moved it and made it pedal 1 & 2. Move the C# over to pedal 2 and left the F# on pedal 3. What this allows is a smooth flow on the pedals allowing for you to push the outside of the foot down on 1, let the foot fall to 2. Then you can do the same for pedal 2 & 3.

You can do that with the regular pedal setups, both Emmons and Day. The only advantage I see is being able to let off the A & C# notes, while leaving the F# on string 4 where it's at, although I have never needed to do that. I could never give up the F# minor chord on strings 3,4,&5 with the B&C pedals. Too much harmony and melody stuff going on there.

But, I will say that a player should put the changes that work for him on his guitar.

Billy Murdoch · Post by **Billy Murdoch** » 16 Sep 2010 11:03 pm

Hi Dave,
After many years of playing(trying) a Day set up I bought a guitar which was Emmons set.I didn't really want to mess with the mechanics so I vowed to learn to play like Emmons
The biggest problem I had was using the left knee levers which lowedred and raised the E strings,they operated in opposite directions on each set up.I hit many bummers when I tried an E lower to get a minor chord or a raise to get a diminished but I nearly get it right now.
I did actually find the Day set up a bit easier on the left ankle but not enough to warrant changing over .
Best regards
Billy

David Nutt · Post by **David Nutt** » 16 Sep 2010 11:41 pm

Billy
Im finding the same, the left ankle doesnt seem to want to rock in what feels to be the opposite direction. Knee levers not so bad as I have had em all over the place over the years.
Im gonna keep at it, at least its making me think a little and practice more.
Good to hear from ya and thanks Billy.
Dave.

Ray Mangrum · Post by **Ray Mangrum** » 17 Sep 2010 4:43 am

I have been back and forth so many times I lost count. When I first started, I'd try anything that gave a different approach, just to make sure I wasn't losing sight of a possibility. I now have the Emmons setup, and even that is modified somewhat. I have my knee levers different, as a matter of prefrence. Frankly, I think it is what you like for one reason or another.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 17 Sep 2010 5:14 am

Richard,

basilh hit it on the head. There is more to the copedent, but I was just showing that section to David to give him an idea of Zane's setup if it was on E9.

Dan

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 17 Sep 2010 8:40 am

Hi Dave

I bought a P/P D10 a little while back. I was tempted to keep the Emmons set up but after almost 40 years of Day, my old brain doesn't work quick enough to play the 'other way'. Ron Mawn did a fantasic job switching my pedals and levers round to the Day set up, but its not a quick job to get the job done properly.

Good luck with your guitar - once set up they play and sound superb.

Ken

David Nutt · Post by **David Nutt** » 18 Sep 2010 4:28 am

I know what you mean Ken, finding it fun trying to think left toe left not right, left knee left not right.lol. Plus- I had only recently changed knees from Es lowers & raises on right knee to left.
Some really interesting bummer sounds coming out of the P/P at the moment,its a wonder you cant hear it down there. Its a good job I only play in the bedroom. Still its keeping the old brain working.
cheers
Dave.

Les Green · Post by **Les Green** » 18 Sep 2010 5:44 am

I started with 'Day', used that for 7-8 years then switched to Emmons. Don't recall it taking a lot of time to get used to, maybe a week at most.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 19 Sep 2010 9:40 am

I've never tried the Day setup. Having always used the Emmons setup is there any point in trying the Day or will it just lead to confusion and result in my setting it all back again ?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 19 Sep 2010 11:38 am

I think if you play one style and are comfortable with it, stay with it. There is no real reason to switch. Some say it is easier to bend their ankle using one setup or the other. A valid reason. I started on Emmons and switched to Day early on, strictly on the recommendation of a friend who worked on my first ZB. Had I stuck with Emmons, I would probably be the same player I am today.

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