The Steel Guitar Forum

I originally posted this on another thread...the more I looked at it in the threads context, the more it looked like it could be seen as a highjack attempt...so I have given it it's own thread.

Anyone wishing to add anything re Spreadsheets, or PSG solution pgms, please feel free to do so.

Posted 4 Sep 2010 8:41 am You want it...just ask.

For those interested in "spreadsheet" programs to solve the various aspects of the PSG, a rough outline of the one that I have created is given below:

1. Enter your setup/coped (copy and paste, or enter direct). Up to 14 strings, and 16 changes. Include string gauges, scale length for calculation of frequencies, tensions, distance between frets, etc.

2. Choose note display as #s, bs, or both. Choose Interval display as 1 thru 7, 1 thru 13, or both. Choose which of 100+ scales you would like presented, and in the key you want.

3. Either enter 1s to indicate which change(s) are activated...or use a macro to scan thru any predetermined combinations of settings. The results will be gathered on a seperate TAB.

4. What can be solved and presented: The neck as notes and/or intervals. The neck as midi notes. The 2,3,4,5,6,&7 tone chords using each string as the root. The 4 tone, and 7 tone chords types as intervals using each string as the root. The "halftone differences" between adjacent strings using each string as the root = a way to find equivalent chords, and chords without roots etc.....and more.

4.1 In the "find notes" TAB, enter up to 7 notes and see their note and interval location for the changes and key chosen.

4.2 In the "frequencies and beats" TAB, see neck frequencies with or without cents adjustments. See string tensions for the entered scale length and gauges....and more.

5. Use the chord location TAB to find the chord types of interest in the note you want as root for the chord type...enter the Root note of interest, see the root strings and frets that gives the chord requested. This is a sortable table with the 3,4,5,6,7 tone chord types, so you can sort for chords by type, chords by string, chords by whatever....yes, there is more.

6.Running this program for your favorite setup will give chord locations you never thought of for your instrument. The chord location table may be copied to a second program that allows reducing the chord count to those most commonly used by you, or by the different styles of music. Here again, the root note for the chord may be entered, and the root strings and frets for the desired chords will be presented.

Too much more to list...if you think that you want to try it...just ask via email. The version sent (1st program) will be setup for the 4 pedal +5 lever setup that I use most = Emmons like E9 with added changes.

Edp

Here is a cook’s tour of the programs:

The first pgm (SOLVE) provides all the info used in the second pgm (USE).

The first thing entered into the SOLVE pgm is the coped/setup. The form that is used is given below. It is either a direct entry, or copy and paste.



The changes (pedals and levers) to be solved for are entered as a 1 if they are to be activated. Then solutions for the neck as notes, intervals, mid note numbers, frequencies, string tensions, and other are presented.

The changer is shown as notes, halftone changes, and intervals for the chosen key.

The three basic necks on an E9 like tuning are the I neck (E), the IV neck (A), and the V neck (B)…or C, F, G at fret 8. What we would like to know is --- where are the chords we want on these necks.

The SOLVE program presents this info in a variety of ways. Some of these are shown below.





To keep this short, the rest can be found at http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... %20series/. Also included are the neck as notes, as Midi note numbers.

Just to tease, below are two of the 13 series (P3) chord type and location charts.





Consider the available chord types available.

Double post deleted.

Wow Ed thanks a lot. This monster makes a hell of a lot more sense now than it did when you first sent it to me in 2008 =)

Thanks Joey...it does to me too. Still searching for the best presentation format.

Ed, one can see you have spent a great amount of time on this spreadsheet. I would love to look at it. E-mail sent to you. By the way I once lived in Young, AZ.

One common question is "what do all those pedals and levers do?" A good answer to that is another question "in what key".

Below is the answer to both questions for this particular setup.

The first two are the changer as notes, and as halftone changes.



The next three are the changer as intervals for the key of E,A,B, or for the I,IV,V necks on any fret.







The next three are the changer as intervals for the relative minor necks to the I,IV,V necks. these would be C#,F#,G#.







The last two are the changer as intervals for the M7, and b7 necks = D# and D.





Now we have seen the changer as intervals for all the notes of the E major scale, plus for the b7. It can also be shown for the midi note numbers for the open string changes.

For more, see the PHOTOBUCKET site given in the opening post, or ask for the spreadsheet/workbook.

Last post was the changer as intervals using the E scale notes as roots. You can make the same charts by hand for your setup/coped. You can also add the notes that are NOT in the E scale in the same way.

If you know how to spell the chord type in intervals, you can find any pedal/lever combination that give you that chord, or partials, with or without roots, etc.

OK, now that what the pedals and levers do is defined for any key, what chords am I likely to want and how are they spelled? The next chart gives the most used four tone major chords, how they are spelled, and the string and fret locations for the setup/coped given at the beginning of this thread.



Four tone chords are chosen because if you drop the fourth tone/string you have the three tone chord, and if you add the fifth tone/string you have the 9th type chord (usually).

Next will be the same chart for the basic four tone minor chords.

Here are the "select" minor chords for the setup/coped being analyzed. This info is from running the SOLVE pgm and "post processing" it in the PSG PST program.



Next = something added to the "basic" chord lists above.

Here are the "basic" majors with modified 5ths.

And to end the "choice chords" list, here are the minors with modified 5ths.



The colm headings are in the BASIC MAJORS list above.

In that BASIC MAJORS chart, the blue box would be where you would enter the chord root that you are looking for. Then the root string and chord type location fret show up in the colm's under the fret and string headings.

The result is a choice of change activations that give the chord type at the location on the fretboard/neck that fits best what you are trying to do.

For those that might want to make the charts larger, or see them in context, the link is below. The charts are labeled CHOICE CHORDS.


http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... %20series/

A short form list of four tone chord inversions:



A partial list of chord inversions:



The IV and V necks as intervals:



These charts are some of what are in the PSG PST program.

Here are some of the scales that the SOLVE pgm will solve for:


Scalar harmony basic:


Scalar harmony for some scales:


Scalar harmony for some more scales:

Whoops...double posted again.

What IS IT about pedal steel players and analytical charts???!!!

My wife is an accountant.
She showed me a few tricks in Excel to format copedents.
Now I have a folder full of this stuff.
Thanks ed

Clete

John, because we're tinkerers by nature.

JMc...What else can one do when their G# breaks?

Clete...I can't remember...did you get the program(s)?

WARNING...Most of what is above has to do with the Emmons E9 with some mods. We have majored in the IV and V necks with added strings, and no middle D (both stacked 6th structures).

Now we will start the P3 & P4 structures = the 13th series tunings. The I neck will be included herein as the 13th series resolves back to the the E69 (NC).

Why did I not use the E9 or C6 10 string for this rant? Because there is an abundance of info for those tunings/setups.

Why 14 strings? Because it includes 10 and 12 strings.

Then why not the standard E9/B6 universal? There would be too many charts to deal with...and although I have a 14 string E9/B6 with the 13 series added in, I did not want to overload this blurb with the B6 changes.

What then is the purpose of the chosen tuning setup? To show some alternate ways of presenting the info, while adding a tutorial on the 13th series structures, plus show an approach to SOLVING the PSG (a program), linked to another program = FIND (the PSG PST program) that allows finding chords for the chosen setup run through the SOLVE pgm.

What is interesting about the 13th series tuning structures?

1. It can be added to either the E9, or C6 like structures.
2. It allows reading sheet music directly to the strings...each line is a string in the M13 structure (P3), and a space in the m13 structure (P3P4R>)when raised 2 frets.
3. Any string is the root of a 3,4,5,6,or 7 tone chord.
4. Scalar harmony for the major scale may be accomplished within just 2 frets and 2 change activations = P3, and P3P4R>.
5. Skip grips are NOT required to avoid the 2s etc..
6. Four and five tone chords are everywhere, and in a logical and easy to remember order.
7. Returning to NC resolves the 13 series back to the 69 chord.
8. The basic chord structures are IM13(P3), Im13(P3P4R>), I13(P3R>), ImM7(P3P4), and the other ped/lev give more variations.

Now to figure out where to start!

Let's start with a peek at the setup/coped. Notice in particular what P3, P4, and R> do to the E chord in notes.



Now for a quick refresher re the changer, and what it changes in terms of the I neck = E = fret 0....or I neck = C = fret 8, because we are now dealing with intervals, any fret may be the I neck as long as we use string #11 as the root.



Notice what intervals P3, P4, and R> will give re the I neck.

If we activate P3 we get IM13 = CM13 on fret 8, root on string 11.

What four tone chord do you find on strings 11,10,9,8?

What four tone chord do you find on strings 10,9,8,7?

Continue up the strings finding four tone chords.

Here are the notes on the IM13 neck:



The black cells are the lowest note = Bb usually found for vocals on sheet music...the red cells are the highest = F. It is convenient to have chord notes below the melody line. Chord notes usually fall on the beat, else the actual chord may not be the one shown.

Look at fret 8 starting with string 11 = C,E,G,B,D,F,A = CM13 = THE LINES OF THE TREBLE STAFF = THE STRINGS OF THE PSG WITH P3 ACTIVATED!

Now look at the other two frets we like to find C chords on (3 & 1) for notes re various 4 & 5 tone C chords....not so different from the I,IV,V necks.

Below is a chart that shows the notes for each string of the IM13 neck as a chord root, followed by the intervals that define the chord type.

In the FIND (PSG PST) program, the desired key is entered in the blue box, and the fret plus associated intervals are presented. Here we have entered C and the fret given is 8.



Below is a chart showing the chord types for the IM13 neck using each string as the chord root. Notice the number of commonly used chord types available.



Next = the Im13 neck.

Here are the notes on the Im13 neck:



Again, the black cells are the lowest note = Bb usually found for vocals on sheet music...the red cells are the highest = F. It is convenient to have chord notes below the melody line. Chord notes usually fall on the beat, else the actual chord may not be the one shown.

Look at fret 8 starting with string 11 = C,Eb,G,Bb,D,F,A = Cm13 = Dm13 if raised 2 frets = THE SPACES OF THE TREBLE STAFF = THE STRINGS OF THE PSG WITH P3P4R> ACTIVATED!

Below is a chart that shows the notes for each string of the Im13 neck as a chord root, followed by the intervals that define the chord type.

In the FIND (PSG PST) program, the desired key is entered in the blue box, and the fret plus associated intervals are presented. Here we have entered C and the fret given is 8.



Below is a chart showing the chord types for the Im13 neck using each string as the chord root. Notice the number of commonly used chord types available.



We now have, in the last two posts, presented the data on the IM13 and Im13 structures. We can see that they contain a lot of chords using only adjacent strings. We can also see that when the Im13 is raised two frets = IIm13, the chords and strings are the notes of the TREBLE STAFF SPACES = read sheet music directly to the strings, AND harmonize the major scale using scalar harmony just by moving between the IM13 fret and the IIm13 fret = two frets up. This works using either 3,4,5,6,or 7 sequential strings per chord.

Here is a chart that shows the frets, strings, and changes needed to perform this scalar harmony in four tone chords in the key of C, going across the neck.



We can also use scalar harmony going up the neck in four tones using string 11 as the roots = next chart.



And up the neck in three tones using string 10 as the roots:



See if you can add the 4th tones, and the missing fret numbers to the above chart.

The chord types needed to harmonize the major scale in four tone chords are M7, m7, m7, M7, 7, m7, m7b5 = CM7, Dm7, Em7, FM7, G7, Am7, Bm7b5 in the key of C.

Remembering that a 6th chord’s 3rd inversion is it’s relative minor, (C6 = C,E,G,A = Am7 = A,C,E,G) then Dm7 = F6, Em7 = G6, Am7 = C6, Bm7b5 = G9 without a root, and we have just played around with the I,IV,V chords to make the harmonized major scale.

We also can see that the jazz folks IIm7, VIm7 and the like are just variation
s on the I,IV,V necks. If you look at the I,IV,V neck charts in the preceding posts, you will see that the IV neck = F6 = Dm7, and the V neck = G6 = Em7.

You can also see that the IV and V neck are (with some low string exceptions for the V neck) stacked 6th chords = inversions are easy to come by…just play the next four strings for the next inversion.

The next chart shows the chord types available for scalar harmony using each string as a root.



Notice that all strings when used as the root do NOT have the four types of chords needed to harmonize the major scale in four tones. What changes would you add to do this?

The charts are found at:

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ ... /?start=40

There you can click on them to make them larger…then click on the enlarged to enlarge them again.

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/edpackard/SOLVE/

The above http gets you to the SOLVE program outline. Apologies for the lack of data definition, but this is intended for general overview. the frames are mostly full screen views with the tabs at the bottom, and row and colm labels shown.

You can enlarge by clicking on the frame, then click again to enlarge more.

The updated/cleaned up SOLVE and FIND programs have been sent to those that asked for them. If I missed you, just email.

I can tell the amount of interest from the hits on the PHOTOBUCKET site, and the emails.

This program looks much like the one that "Dapper Dan" produced.

I am not familiar with Dapper Dan's...Where is it to be found?

DapperDansPsgProgram

I bought this program off of eBay in 2006, I believe. It works very well.

Curt; thanks for the link. Interesting, but limited re what I am aiming at.

Karlis Abolins, a Forumite offered a free one a few years back that had the same "look".

I prefer the "naked" EXCEL format as folk can see the formulation and use it for their own purposes if they want.

Every few years for the last decade (long as this Forum has existed) I offer the PGM in whatever state it is in at the time, to anyone that wants it = hundreds so far.