The Steel Guitar Forum

What is the most that one can put on a pedal steel? ONe that builds upon the accepted "standard"?

James....Scotty has a used Excel S-14 for sale on his site that has ten pedals and eighteen knee levers. I believe it was originally built for Buddy Cage.

I think that Vance Terry's Sierra had 22 pedals - two tiers of 11.

If I remember right, the D-12 Dekley I built for Al Petty had 20 heel and toe pedals staggered on two stacked pedal bars and five knee levers.

basically one finds 3 to 4 pedals & 4 to 5 levers on E9
on C6 5 pedals & 4 to 5 levers
the 5 levers are pretty standard LKL LKV LKR RKL RKR

Jimmie Crawford made a lot of 10x10 Emmons push-pull guitars back in the day. A lot of the top pros of the 1970s were using 10x10 AND playing guitars Jimmie configured. Jimmie invented the 5 lever cluster that now bears his name for the left knee levers (2 left; 2 right; 1 vert). If you had one 5 lever cluster for E9, one for C6 (the 10x10 usually had 3 levers in the middle, over the C6 pedals), and 2 right knee levers you would have 12 levers.

I remember Buddy Cage playing a D10 or D12 that had 12 levers, but I seem to recall more than one vertical on each left knee cluster. I do remember a published interview with Cage indicating that he had 14 levers.

In terms of playability, I can tell you from experience that it is difficult to get a full five lever cluster so that you can easily hit each individual lever, but IT CAN BE DONE. I typically use 7 or 8 levers (5 left -- 2 or 3 right) on a single 12 guitar and can (and do) use them all.

My recollection is that the Vance Terry and Al Petty guitars had the most pedals I've ever seen or heard of and Cage's push-pull guitars during the early years of the New Riders was the max number of levers I'm aware of -- for what THAT'S worth.

I can't get my head around more than 5+5. I make too many mistakes. Even with 5 pedals, I miss the pedal I want sometimes. I should be playing 4+5, but I can't get my copedent down that far.

I can't get my head around more than 5+5.

And I can't get by with less than 6x6 (and really prefer 8x8)

One reason why pedal steel is a very personalized instrument. Everyone is built differently, has different musical wants and needs, and has a unique take on how the music relates to the layout of the guitar, etc.

I seriously doubt that we are moving more towards a standardized setup, which is better for those learning the instrument but may not be the choice of an experienced player or an innovator.

Jim Smith wrote:If I remember right, the D-12 Dekley I built for Al Petty had 20 heel and toe pedals staggered on two stacked pedal bars and five knee levers.

I saw Al give a lecture/demonstration at Blackie Taylor's shop with a Sierra that also was also set up like that.

Blackie later had another Sierra in the store that had 6 pedals, 3 toe and 3 heel, and no knee elvers. I tried that one out, but didn't like it.

I asked Cage how he got by with only 14 levers, and he said "the steel has it's limitations."

I just made that up, BTW, but it's funny and I don't care who you are.

Seriously now, Vance, Petty, and Cage are the hosts with the most that I'm aware of.

I vaguely remember an MSA (I think) that was built for Julian Tharpe back in the early-mid '70's ,with a single bank of 21 strings and 20 foot/corn pedals and 10 knee's (I think).....but hey, that's Julian we're talkin bout

I met Julian tharp a long long time ago at Scotties,He was a rebel or at least I think he was. I talked to him a long time before he went on Stage He said I do a lick for you while I'm picking I said OK he played a cpl songs then played Drivin Nails in my Coffin,He done this razzle Dazzle lick looked out at Me shook his head and winked at me,when He came off stage I said Man that was a great lick, Sorry I can't tell you what he said but it involves some choice words,He was playing a Sierra a Blac one with gold levers and gold trim I think it was at least 14 strings I know it had at LEAST 7 and maybe up to 9 or 10 k levers. Pedals all the way across the rack, it is still the coolest run I ever heard on a Pedal Steel guitar,about a 16 Move run in a cpl seconds.
thats Julian

Jim Smith wrote:If I remember right, the D-12 Dekley I built for Al Petty had 20 heel and toe pedals staggered on two stacked pedal bars and five knee levers.

Funny, I helped build a similar guitar for Al when I was working at Sierra. Can't recall how many knee levers it had, but the double rack foot/heel pedals were a real pain in the a$$ to set-up.

Tony Glassman wrote:

Jim Smith wrote:If I remember right, the D-12 Dekley I built for Al Petty had 20 heel and toe pedals staggered on two stacked pedal bars and five knee levers.

Funny, I helped build a similar guitar for Al when I was working at Sierra. Can't recall how many knee levers it had, but the double rack foot/heel pedals were a real pain in the a$$ to set-up.

That must have been the one I saw him play at Blackie's shop. Hey Tony, did you also assemble the one with the 3 toe pedals and 3 heel pedals that I saw there?

Tony Glassman wrote:

Jim Smith wrote:If I remember right, the D-12 Dekley I built for Al Petty had 20 heel and toe pedals staggered on two stacked pedal bars and five knee levers.

Funny, I helped build a similar guitar for Al when I was working at Sierra. Can't recall how many knee levers it had, but the double rack foot/heel pedals were a real pain in the a$$ to set-up.

Actually, it's not funny, as I don't think he paid Sierra for their guitar either.

Herb Steiner wrote: Seriously now, Vance, Petty, and Cage are the hosts with the most that I'm aware of.

But with his -58 Bigsby Chief Mack Thomas was the daddy of them all :

Jussi Huhtakangas wrote:

Herb Steiner wrote: Seriously now, Vance, Petty, and Cage are the hosts with the most that I'm aware of.

But with his -58 Bigsby Chief Mack Thomas was the daddy of them all :

You could serve a small buffet meal on that thing.

I sure hope he had a "house gig", because it looks about as portable as a sleeper-sofa.

Mike Perlowin wrote:

Tony Glassman wrote:

Jim Smith wrote:If I remember right, the D-12 Dekley I built for Al Petty had 20 heel and toe pedals staggered on two stacked pedal bars and five knee levers.

Funny, I helped build a similar guitar for Al when I was working at Sierra. Can't recall how many knee levers it had, but the double rack foot/heel pedals were a real pain in the a$$ to set-up.

That must have been the one I saw him play at Blackie's shop. Hey Tony, did you also assemble the one with the 3 toe pedals and 3 heel pedals that I saw there?

If it was built when I was there, I don't recall working it. I can't remember any s-10 heel/toe pedal guitars.

bill: julian's black and gold sierra had 10/floor pedals and 6/knees, first time i remember hearing julian he was playing a 4/neck (i think it was a fender with no pedals) with a drummer, and a singer playing a d/28 martin. thanks jack

Jack Goodson wrote:bill: julian's black and gold sierra had 10/floor pedals and 6/knees, first time i remember hearing julian he was playing a 4/neck (i think it was a fender with no pedals) with a drummer, and a singer playing a d/28 martin. thanks jack

Julian seemed the sort that would not get along with everyone,I think he felt he didn't get the respect he deserved,jusy my opinion,but he really warmed up to me,of course I had just started playing and couldn't believe I was getting to talk to this Steel guitar star like him,I saw him later He was always very warm and friendly to me.He had some moves that would stifle you he was truly years ahead of a lot of players

But with his -58 Bigsby Chief Mack Thomas was the daddy of them all

I could have bought that guitar, when Steve Soeste (SP?) had it, but I couldn't think of anything useful to do with it and I can't afford expensive furniture.