Don Helms E13 on a 6 string??

[Jon Gersh]

Group, I just got the Don Helms E13 book from B0b, and it looks great! Even got some new strings. That said, I've looked over the tabs in the book, and nothing actually ever touches the 7th or 8th string. So here's my question to the SGF: Is there any downside to doing E13 on a six string neck? What would Don Helms say? I have a spare neck on a 1950 Fender D8 Pro (currently in C6/E7), but it'd be ergonomically easier to do this on a lap steel. Plus my D8 is for sale. Thanks in advance, Jon G., Arlington MA

[John Burton]

I always have at least one of my lap sixers tuned this way.
Works great! I too have the Helms book and found it really helpful in a lot of ways.
Remember: The "E13" six string tuning (E G# B C# E G#) is the same as C6, (C E G A C E) just "tuned" four frets higher, in other words, take a c6 tuned lap steel and imagine a capo at the fourth fret...that's E13 (or E6).
So, you can learn from any C6 material if you transpose it. You know what I mean?
After you work through the Helms' stuff, The Roy Wiggins book is also in that same tuning.
Also Dick Meis offers some tabs in that tuning on his site, though most of it is for eight string, a lot can be played on a E6 strung six string.
I would say E6 is the tuning I use the most.

[Morgan Scoggins]

You will only need six strings for the Don Helms book. The Little Roy book will require 8 strings for some of the songs.

[Jon Gersh]

Say, it totally escaped me that this was the "same" as the C6 tuning up four frets. That said... what's the UP side to having an E6? I understand the tonal differences in not having to scoot so high up the neck for certain chords.... but in my circles, the singer always calls the key, and it's seldom what is printed in the book...

[Jon Gersh]

So I strung up an old Fender Champ 6 string I just bought with the strings I bought from B0b, E13 (but really e6) and damned if it doesn't sound great! Very nice tone. I can't wait to try out the Don Helms book. I've been playing Wedding Bells with my girlfriend now I'll have the 'real' licks. You can hear her singing (without me) here: http://www.planetbanjo.com/weddingbellessmall.mp3
a really nice pure kind of country voice.

[Nils Fliegner]

Jon,
I recall seeing a picture (here on SGF!) where Don had written out his tunings and string gauges for someone.

The E-tuning went (lo to hi): A C# E G# B C# E G#. So even with 8-strings, there was no b7 in there. It was still an E6/AM9 tuning.
The other neck had (lo to hi): F# A B D# F# A C# E. This is where the "dominant" sound was - B9 tuning with two b7's (= A note).

As I understand it, Don never had a fat 13-tuning à la Leon McAuliffe with a b7 in the lower register and a sixth above.
It is my guess that he went for a sweeter, less jazzy tuning that fit better into Hank's simpler chord changes/structures

[Mike Harris]

Nils,

thanks for that post--I think you've hit on what I was trying to get in the thread about Don Helms E tuning vs. Leon McAuliffe E tuning. Answers on that thread seemed to be dancing around the crux of the matter, but I think you hit it on the head.

thanks again,

Mike

ps-my apologies for "crossing over"

[John Burton]

Say, it totally escaped me that this was the "same" as the C6 tuning up four frets. That said... what's the UP side to having an E6? I understand the tonal differences in not having to scoot so high up the neck for certain chords.... but in my circles, the singer always calls the key, and it's seldom what is printed in the book...

Well,IMO, the upside is getting that "high lonesome" sound that is so prevalent in vintage country. Sure, you can play Hank Williams' tunes on a regular c6, but that means you almost have to play way up the fret board where the the spacing (and intonation) gets a little trickier. It's just easier below, say,the 12 fret, to get some slow glissando and vibrato happening in trying to imitate those old recordings.
Plus, some of those intro Don Helms did, For example, are an octave above the backup and solo parts. On a a C6 neck you are playing way up towards the 24 fret. Yeah, it CAN be done..but just ain't as easy.
Also, those thin strings tuned up high to E6 just have that tone.
Keep in mind, though, some of Hank Williams recordings feature other steelers, like Jerry Byrd, who probally used C6.
You might also look into Forum Member Roy Thomson's tab/course on Hank Williams. He's got some good stuff for six string C6.

As a side note; I have a double-6 steel that I keep one neck strung C6 and the far neck E6.

[Nils Fliegner]

Another consideration: IMHO it is easier getting out of the vocalists' way with a highpitched E6 than with A6 or even low C6,
allthough of course it may depend on the vocalist Then again, I think the lower tunings offer a more beefy sound when soloing.

I may be wildly over-generalising here, but I think in the larger Western Swing bands the steeler was more of a hot jazz-soloist,
while with this Honkytonk music he was more inside the ensemble sound.
I remember reading that Don Helms was asked by producer Fred Rose to play in the highest register posible,
while on Bob Wills records it was more loose - like Bob pointing to you and it was time to solo!