How to remove the cross-shafts on Emmons legrande?

Ryan Barwin · Post by **Ryan Barwin** » 24 Jul 2010 3:46 am

I'm thoroughly cleaning all the parts on my Legrande II..it's all pretty dirty and full of black grease. I've got it almost completely taken apart now.
Anyway, I can't figure out how remove the cross-shafts. Anyone know how to get them off? Thanks.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 24 Jul 2010 4:41 am

I think there is a spring loaded pin in one end or the other. Take a small tool like a pocket screwdriver or metal pick and see if you can push it back up inside the shaft.

It's a bit tedious so a splash of patience is in order. I don't know if all LG's are like this, but I'm pretty sure some are.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 24 Jul 2010 5:18 am

when I took mine aprt for full cleaning, the cross shafts were NON removable. 86 Legrande. Mine did not have any spring loaded ends, wish it did.

t

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 24 Jul 2010 5:56 am

They have spring loaded ends.
The end of the cross shaft is hollow with a plunger and a spring behind it.

Bill Plemmons · Post by **Bill Plemmons** » 24 Jul 2010 7:51 am

A Legrande cross shaft can usually be removed if there is some space between the rear apron and the end of the shaft. I once watched Ron Jr. remove a cross shaft on my Legrande and I have since done it several times myself. Place a screwdriver or other small "prying" tool under the shaft being removed to exert upward pressure on the shaft and use a very thin bladed tool to access and move the pin into the shaft. With no pressure on the the shaft, move the pin into the shaft, hold the pin and apply upward pressure to the shaft with the screwdriver to keep the pin from moving back into the apron. Repeat the process as needed until the shaft comes out. When I do this I use a small piece of laminate under the end of the screwdriver blade to keep from marring the cabinet. Hope this helps.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 24 Jul 2010 10:43 am

Is the spring loaded end at the front or the back of the guitar?

Bill Plemmons · Post by **Bill Plemmons** » 24 Jul 2010 12:55 pm

The pin is spring loaded in the shaft at the back of the guitar.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 24 Jul 2010 10:30 pm

If you wish to remove all the cross shafts I suggest that you remove the screws that hold the front and rear necks together at the joint and take the cabinet apart. You would have to scrape the flocking away, dig thru the wood filler to get to the screws, then when you put it back together refill and reflock the screw holes.
Jerry

Ryan Barwin · Post by **Ryan Barwin** » 25 Jul 2010 12:21 am

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm thinking it would be easiest to find a way to clean it without taking them off. Seems a lot more difficult than I'd expected. And then there would be the challenge of getting them back on...

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 25 Jul 2010 9:48 am

Ryan, if they are not binding I certainly would not think of removing them. The newer models have the cross shaft shortened about 1/8" and they can be removed, not simple but possible. The earlier ones don't have enough clearance to get a tool into the spring loaded dowel and are next to impossible to remove. This is not a problem only with Emmons but there are some other brands with this same installation.
Jerry

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 25 Jul 2010 10:38 am

Well, I would certainly defer to Mr. Roller. Never known him to give out any bad information. I was just going by the Derby that I had which, I was told, was identical to the Emmons' cross shaft design.

I removed a couple of them, but it was definitely a PITA compounded by the center rail that runs the length of the body.

From my knowledge of Jerry's expertise, particularly of Emmons guitars, I'd say he knows from whence he speaks.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 26 Jul 2010 9:34 am

The Derby has a shorter cross shaft with more of the dowel exposed and the spring tension is less. You can remove a Derby shaft by pulling the cross shaft back toward the back apron as far as it will go, then put downward pressure on the back end of the cross shaft to wedge the dowel it the cross shaft hole and with pressure maintained move the shaft toward the front aprom as far as it will go. If it don't drop out, slide a thin tool between the back apron and shaft and put pressure on the dowel to hold it where it is and again push the shaft toward the back apron, put downward pressure on the back end of the shaft to again wedge the dowel in the end of the shaft, push the shaft toward front apron and it should come out. I have not been able to remove an Emmons shaft this way.
Jerry

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 26 Jul 2010 12:59 pm

Jerry Roller wrote:t The earlier ones don't have enough clearance to get a tool into the spring loaded dowel and are next to impossible to remove.

Well ok, maybe mine did have spring loaded shafts but they were not coming out without blasting. I tried a million times till next Tuesday, they had basically zero play at each end. Mine was an 86 / 4 hole bell crank Legrande...

Nice axe, but glad it's gone !

t

Bruce Hamilton · Post by **Bruce Hamilton** » 26 Jul 2010 7:31 pm

I owned a fully loaded lacquer Legrande 111 for years and it was the little things that drove me crazy enough to sell it. Like how much more would it cost to put a routing in the rear apron like a JCH to allow removal of the crossrods. Other than some design changes at the bridge assembly there appears to be very little ongoing improvements to the original design which is what at least 30 years old. Really how much would it cost?

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 26 Jul 2010 7:47 pm

IMHO, All it takes is a steady hand and a little patience to remove the cross shafts on LeGrandes or Derbys. In the case of the Derby, there are 18-screws that hold the center brace in place and removing that strip is the least appealing of the whole proceedure for me! To push the spring-loaded pin into the cross shaft, a sharp blade edge of a pocket-knife seems to work best for me, to kinda stick to the surface of the spring-loaded pin. If the cross shafts are currently empty, I don't see the advantage in removing them just to wipe them clean!(?)

Eddie Lane · Post by **Eddie Lane** » 27 Jul 2010 12:02 pm

I agree with Jerry Roller. Unless you really have to remove the cross shaft...leave it alone. You will find out that it is usually more trouble than it is worth.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 27 Jul 2010 6:41 pm

This is actually a very good design in that there are shallow brass bushings in each end of the cross shaft. They are not deep enough to collect much debris or dried grease so unless you want to reflock the underneath there should be no reason to remove the cross shafts. If you want to reflock then just take the body apart by removing the screws down the center that hold the two necks together then the cross shafts fall out. I don't know how they could design it using these brass bushings in the rear apron if it had a removable aluminum strip to allow removal of the shafts out the back. Ron did suggest me when I had a LeGrande split with the cross shafts out that I should mill off 1/8" from the back ends of the cross shafts to make them removable in the future.
Jerry

Bill Howard · Post by **Bill Howard** » 20 Nov 2012 9:13 am

I called Paul Franklin Sr he told me about the spring loaded pin on my old LL2 Tony Prior is right mine WOULD NOT MOVE!!!. I had a broken screw on my headstock and HAD to remove it so I could remove the broken screw,I finally took a dremel and cut the cross shaft in 2 then ordered a slightly smaller length then used a knee lever bracket to attach it back where it belonged sorry but a BAD design... Never ever worked on my franklin ...in 24 years....

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How to remove the cross-shafts on Emmons legrande?

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