The Steel Guitar Forum

Ihave read many of the discussions on here about cord progression and etc. The problem is I don't understand any of it. I have had no musical training and when you folks start talking of minors, majors, triads, sixths and other terms I am completely lost. I do have Jerry Byrds course and am making some head way. What I would really like to find is something that would explain basic music theory as it applies to steel guitar. Also I live in Buffalo, Wy. and would like to find some on in this area that would be interested in giving lessons. Thanks a lot guys. Henry Songer

Henry, music theory applies to all instruments equally. If you don't know the very basics, it may be worth you getting dedicated formal theory instruction locally, rather than over the net. Some of the stuff that is discussed on this forum requires years of practical and theoretical knowledge to grasp, and some requires fairly rudimentary knowledge. This is certainly not said to dissuade you, rather, getting dedicated theory lessons would hopefully speed the process up!

All that techy sounding stuff you mentioned, I know nothing about either.

I'd urge you to stick to Jerry Byrd's instruction manual and REFUSE to try and get ahead of his teachings. Take it all, one step at a time. No faster than that. Then go back and review regularly.

This is not an easy instrument you've chosen to learn how to play. I'm still learning after many years.

Many people are intimidated by the idea of music theory, but the basic concepts are quite simple. I always recommend "Edly's Music Theory for Practical People" by Ed Roseman.

I strongly feel that one needs to learn the terminology before one can learn the principles of most anything that we wish to learn.

Instead of delving in to "music theory" per se; I will talk about chord-triad structure and offer a brief discussion of some critical terminology.

First: A brief synopsis of terminology.
A “half step” is the interval which equates to: up or down 1 fret.
A “whole step” is the interval which equates to: up or down 2 frets.
A major third is 2 whole steps (4 frets of interval).
A minor third is 1 and a half steps (3 frets of interval).
A major fifth is 3 and half steps (7 frets of interval).
A “triad” is three notes (every other note is played) beginning on some arbitrary note in any given key.

The key of C-major includes no sharps or flats. To say this another way the key of C-major includes only the white key notes on a piano. SO my examples will use the key of C for the sake of simplicity.

In the key of C major the 1-note is C (this should be obvious) so playing a triad based upon the 1-note will include the 1-note, the 3-note, and the 5-note (remember a triad is every other note) which are the notes C, E, & G.
In any given key there are 7 triads: 3 triads are Major Chords, 3 triads are Minor chords, and the triad based upon the 7-note is a diminished chord (diminished chords are used very little so I will not say much about them here-in).
The major chords are based upon the starting notes 1, 4, and 5: these are typically notated as chords I, IV, & V (note the major chords are depicted with upper-case roman numerals).
The minor chords are based upon the starting notes 2, 3, & 6: these are typically notated as chords ii, iii, & vi (note the minor chords are depicted with lower-case roman numerals).
The vii chord triad is a diminished chord (as mentioned above and also depected with a lower-case roman numeral).
The major chord triads in the key of C are: C-major (I), F-major (IV), and G-major (V).
The minor chord triads in the key of C are: D-minor (ii), E-minor (iii), and A-minor (vi).
The diminished chord in the key of C is B-diminished (vii).


An “inverted chord” is simply a chord in which the lowest note does not correspond to the name of the note for which the chord is named. A C-major chord can be played (from low to high)
-> C, E, & G.
However there are 2 inverted forms of the C-major chord which are (from low to high):
-> E, G, & C (3-note, 5-note, & 1-note) and
-> G, C, & E (5-note, 1-note, & 3-note)
Inverted chords are comprised of notes of the same name, but in a different sequence.

In both major chord triads and minor chord triads (non inverted) the lowest and highest notes are a major fifth apart (3 and a half steps which is 7 frets of interval). The difference between a major chord and a minor chord lies in the middle note.
A major chord contains a major third interval from the bottom note.
A minor chord contains a minor third interval from the bottom note.

I hope that this will prove more helpful than confusing.

Lynn Oliver wrote:Many people are intimidated by the idea of music theory, but the basic concepts are quite simple. I always recommend "Edly's Music Theory for Practical People" by Ed Roseman.

I have to agree with Lynn, I knew very little, Even with Lynn trying to help me it was still difficult..

I purchased the book and is worth every penny / dime or $
The guys hear are fantastic and need a medal trying to teach me, and the help is endless, but its still difficult having to print off the posts or having to go back on them all the time, paper everywhere ...The books covers the terminology, note's scales,and then chords,and loads more after that...and teaches you in a way that all levels will understand without making you feel like a muppet....
dont fall into the trap I did ..I learned to play the keyboard...BUT what I learned was where to put my fingers and when, and although I learned to read sheet music the black blob just meant hit that key...Then when I asked for help on here I hadent a clue what they where on about, sorry to keep on but it is good Paul

You guys are awsome, thanks for the replies, they will be extremely helpfull, and at my age I need all the help I can get.

It is very gratifying to find people that so willing to take the time to help others in the way you folks are doing.

Thaks again.

Henry

The Edly book is good. As Ray says, you don't need to know any music theory to make music. You can get tab and instruction books and play exactly what they lay out. And that might be enough. But since you've expressed interest, people tend to over think it:

First you have melody. Melody is a song you might sing. And if you are playing a instrument like a flute or a trumpet, that is all you are going to be playing...melody. Single notes strung together.

As soon as you play 2 notes together, rather than one, you are playing Harmony. The harmony creates a background for the melody and can make the melody sound happy or sad, or some other emotion. Harmony is also what creates movement through the song so you don't feel like you are sitting still. It moves along like a story.

That movement is created through chord progressions. All that means is that one chord ( a chord is grouping of notes that sound good together) follows another and the melody lays on top of that to create a song. That movement is called a chord progression. You progress along the string of chords until you get to the end and you start all over again.

Knowledge of what the underlying chords are will tell you which two notes sound good together. The melody note and the harmony note. (of course it could be harmony notes - plural - as well). Those harmony notes that sound good are based on the chords in the progression.

Here is a simple way of thinking about it. If you know Duke Ellington's C Jam Blues, the melody is only 2 notes: a G note that is repeated over and over and a C note. But the song seems to move along because the harmony keeps changing below the two notes. So it seems to tell a story even though the same two notes are repeated over and over exactly the same way. The harmony is what keeps it all interesting.

Hi..That was put very well Bill

I know I put my two pennies worth in on a post BUT I realy want highlight what you say...other peoples Tabs are good if that is enough....

AS a complete beginer myself I found that like a cd album you may like 3 songs out of the whole Album I found the same in the books..

I also found when learning I get on better with songe I like and know.....BUT then comes to finding thoes songs, then back to where you started..
SO learning the theory of music helps and gives you the tools that you need to understand what you are doing so eventualy one should be able to work out and play what you want.....There is STILL a load of ready written for you to fall back on, while you are learning..I posted asking for the old ruggerd cross being lazy and maybe not experanced enough yet to work it out,what Im trying to say IMHO there is nothing wrong with useing other peoples tabs..but if you dont learn the Theroy then you will always have to play other peoples tabs..I hit 3 score years this week so age dosent come into it..All the best on your learning Regards Paul

What Ray said, I don't know anything about music theory either and not enough years left to study it, so I just play.

He tell's everyone the same, but few seem to listen.

James.

You guys have answered a lot of my questions and I would like thank each one of you. I found the Edly book in Gillette today and I think the glossary alone is worth the price. I also have a ton of other material that some of you folks have put out. I will concentrate mostly on the Jerry Byrd course until I become more advanced. Now its time to scratch some strings instead of my head
Henry

hello guys were can a man get a hold of one of these books you talk about in this post any one got one for sell if so email me thanks

Will, I orderd one this morning from Amazon. com for $16.50 plus $4.00 shipping.

Henry; I hope that what I previously Posted was cohesive enough to make sense to you after a bit of time to parse it. Your email indicated that I had made some sense to you (thanks for the feedback).

It occurred to me after my last Post that I never explained why I mentioned chord "inversions": so I will explain that now. The primary reaon was convey that any chord can be played in a variety of ways.

When playing Steel "bar slants" allow one to change chords and to play some chords which might not otherwise be readily playable. A "bar-slant" is where the bar is rotated across the strings instead of the bar remaining perpendicular to the strings.

A popular bar-slant chord-change is the I to IV chord change. If you have a I chord (not inverted) on adjacent strings (like C, E, & G from low to high) and you rotate the bar so that the lowest note stays over the same fret, the next higher string (the 3-note string)rotates one fret higher, and the bar on the 5-note string rotates to 2 frets higher. The triad which those stings will now play will be a IV chord (inverted form). With this slant the notes from low to high will transition from C, E, & G to C, F, & A (these latter 3 notes comprise an F-major triad/chord). Specifically C, F, & A comprise from low to high an F-major where the F-note is the root (1-note), the A-note is the major-3rd, and the C-note which is in the Bass (thus an inversion form) is the major-5th note.

Try this I to IV slant, seeing and hearing will be far less abstract than my words.

BTW: on those Steel guitars with pedals which are discussed in another sub-Forum here. The B & A pedals (combined) on the E9 neck do the same type of I to IV change that the above-desribed bar slant does.

I do not want to overwhelm you with concepts; but if you understand that triads have inverted forms then things like the above I to IV change will make some sense when you look at what the bar-slant is actually doing.

If you follow that the above slant went from a I chord to a IV (inversion). Then you will soon realize that if you slide the slanted bar up 2 frets (retaining the slant as you slide) you will now have an inverted V chord.

Ray Montee wrote:...REFUSE to try and get ahead of his teachings. Take it all, one step at a time. No faster than that. Then go back and review regularly.

In spite having made my posts about terminology, inversions, and triads. I very much agree with Ray's comment.

For the sake of humor I will define one more term for you. A "turnaround" is what you do not want to do in a narrow alley when your music equipment is in a trailer behind your vehicle.

-E

OK guy's I've got it. I have all the TABs,tuners, 2 instruments, a metranome, Earnie Ball volume pedal, a 25 watt amp two or three vidio's ------and the T shirt. Does that make me a steel player? Seriously I appreciate the input. I will takr Ray's advice and study and practice. Henry