The Steel Guitar Forum

The Fan Fair or now the Music Festival, was a great place to showcase some of our great steel players. Don Helms, John Hughey and many others. We also showcased classic country music at the Bluegrass Inn on lower Broad during the festival. Klint Brown, an up and coming steel player was one of our featured players. I think it's about time that the modern so called country music get's a new name. I don't know what but something different than the CMA. The CMA was started back in the late fifties and was about country music.....Today the CMA is headed by president Steve Moore who was and is a rock promoter starting with ZZ Top and others. Knows very little about the real country music. His secretary is the one I talked to and she informed me that she had never heard of Faron Young. I didn't bother mentioning Don or John's names. The phone is answered by a young man who never heard of Kitty Wells. The entire staff for the Fan Fair is staffed by people, most that have no knowledge of the history of classic country music and the beginnings of country music. Kris Kennedy, who handles the Convention Center exhibitors during the Music Festival refused to let the IFCA, International Fan Club For Bluegras and Classic Country Music, have a booth for the eleventh straight year. She single handedly seems to be destroying the old Fan Fair and seems to have a good enough story that her bosses do not investigate any complaints. I am president of the IFCA and have contacted the presidents office, Steve Moore, Sheri Wenke the VP, and Bobette, Kris Kennedys direct superior that she answers too and no reponse from any of them. Seems that they must agree with Kris, whatever story she is giving them.
I am disturbed and don't know what to do about it. After years of us promoting the greatest country music instrument ever, now the CMA has people working for them that don't even seem to know what a pedal steel guitar is.
Dave Burley
IFCA President www.IFCA-bluegrass-country.com

Well,whats new,the public has been had by several things as i see it.i would guess that a large portion of the public has been dummied down by the corps owned radio stations and greedy industry people ,the hiring of the new younger set that wouldn't know what country music was about if it hit them in the butt,while people were playing with the newest I phone or other needless toys, the rest of the country and music industry was going down the tubes and being put in the control of the bean counters who had no vested interest in anything but the dollar and the fastest way of making it and so goes the rest of our world.and its going to get worse.MHO.

The CMA Awards need to be picketed and agressively protested. Why did George Strait, Reba McIntire, and Vince Gill let this happen? It makes me sick watching them and others sit in the front row and watch as country music is STOLEN by Hollywood, Manhatten , and rock bands. Why don't they agressively speak up and say somthing! Its NOT country music. Its ROCK!

Kevin Hatton wrote:sit in the front row and watch as country music is STOLEN by Hollywood, Manhatten

That's kind of funny considering that the very first president of the CMA was raised in New York & Hollywood, and was an accountant for Standard Oil before moving to Nashville to work for his dads publishing company. I would be willing to bet that Wesley Rose had no idea of who the country or hillbilly artist were 50 or 60 years before he became the president of the Country Music Association(or even after). How many of you know of Dan Emmett, Billy Whitlock, Dick Myers, Eck Robertson, John Carson, Sam Sweeney, Dock Boggs, Charlie Poole, or Henry Gilliland? They were some of the great fiddle & banjo combos from the 1860s to the 1920s, because that's what country music was before it was infiltrated by pop music in the '30s.

At least Steve Moore spent most his life as a music promoter, and the past decade running AEG Live(the second largest promoter of live concerts on earth).

although I would not argue against the case, but this is 2010.

Gone are the sock hops, the small Friday night drive-in's, AM radio record jocks, Ozzie and Harriet etc... Country Music has not died, it is hidden away with a glimpse here and there of the classics. Right now traditional country appears to be back on the Bluegrass stage, sure no Pedal Steel, but tons of Dobro, classic tunes, great songs and singers and even some non pedal electric up on the stage now and then.

You will not find 1970 shows on a 2010 stage, why are you looking there ? At some point it will evolve again into the "MAIN" Mainstream but it will take another generation of listeners and show attendees.

Maybe it's time for a young promoter to start another venue of concerts featuring traditional bands, but I suspect the biggest problem will be performers who are able to work for free for a while. Another problem could be the lack of quality local country bands where people would rather "leave" then stay and listen, that's not helping, and they look horrible as well. It starts at the bottom.

There is nothing wrong with today's big shows, the public at large wants them and is supporting them, when they STOP supporting them then it will change again. There are not enough traditional acts that can draw the crowds and pay the tab, and that is what matters. This isn't 1960 . It doesn't matter that the 25 yr old who answers the phone doesn't know who Faron Young is , he ain't on the Bill. These people are in business today, right now. IF you want to see and hear classic and great Country Pickin', go to the next Bluegrass festival near your home. But Faron Young won't be there either.

Yes, this is 2010 but the year doesn't mean a thing. Bob Wills was country music in the thirties. Pee Wee King was country music in the thirties. Go to Deano's in Muskegon, Mich. on Sunday afternoon and you will hear Bob Wills country music in 2010. Go to Spartq in Michigan and listen to Leroy Goldens band. You will hear Pee Wee King country music in 2010. Good country music is still being played throughout the world. My main gripe is that todays pop/rock/so called country is stealing the Country Music Association away from us. Granted, when Wesley Rose went to Nashville he wasn't country but he did join country and he didn't try to change country music. If he had, Roy Acuff would have sent him back to New York.
Why not let Steve Moore, Kris Kennedy and all the others start their own association for their rock/pop/sometimes country music. Let them rock promoters go to New York...Have their awards show for their pop stars in New York. Call it something different. Leave our CMA alone rather than sucking off of it and changing what has been around for sixty or seventy years. Remember the old Disc Jockey Convention in Nashville? It is now the Music Festival. Biggest thing of the year for these wannabe rock stars that couldn't make it in that field so they come over and start sucking off of the CMA. George Strait, Vince Gill and a host of others still do great classic country music. The rock/sometimes country artists have taken over everything. The radio stations, Billboard charts....Although good country music is still here the rockabillies have stolen our venues. Go to the Convention Center during the Music Festival. Unbelieveable. You won't recognize too many of the Classic Country artists because they won't be there. Taylor Swift, the Electric Washing Machine, Barnyard Horse Manure, the Nose Snot band, The Feedback Guitar band, The Smokin Pot band, Ole Tight Jeans and His Cowboy Hat Rock Band..... Rings all the way from their noses through their tongues then their nipples and furthur on to unknown parts.
Sorry for the rant. I have been fighting this for years but I am not smart enough to do anything about it except to bitch about it.
Have a nice day and may the bird of paradise fly up the noses of the Steve Moores, Bobettes, Kris Kennedys, Katie Sylvesters Sheri Warnkes and so on. I'm outta here.
Dave Burley in a rare good mood.

Tony, you're right on the money,this is 2010 and sure the music has changed from traditional country to the "new country" and and in some cases,thank God.I'm 65 years old and although I was raised on traditional country I love to hear Taylor Swift,Carrie Underwood and so on and if they were performing close to my town I would damn well support them and we all should support them,they do employ a lot of musicians both in studio and on the road.I've played in a band for close to 40 years and most of it was traditional country but i've had to change my song list quite a few times in the last 10 years or i'd be sitting at home without a gig.The young kids are buying the CD's and going to the shows and that's what counts and whether they know Faron or Hank Snow should'nt matter,they are still supporting country music even if it's not 19??'s traditional. But this forum is about steel guitar and maybe that's were the sore spot is,this new country/rock doesn't have as much steel guitar/twin fiddles up front to make it pure country.But this topic has been beat to death enough and whether we like it or not it's here until we're all gone.
Gotta take a pill !!!and turn on the radio!!!

While I am not a fan of much newer country, and definitely a fan of the classic stuff, I can understand why people such as Faron Young and other singers of yesteryear are not present in the business of country music anymore. You have to make room for a constantly changing musical environment. Alvin highlights an important point in mentioning that many country greats 100 years ago were pushed aside to make room for what many then considered watered-down country. This is now what we consider "classic" country. It's a generational thing. We all want to defend who we think is the greatest and means the most to us and our generation, but unfortunately the music business only works that way if the old stuff is profitable, like the Beatles, Johnny Cash and Led Zeppelin. If Faron Young's image could still sell 100,000 t-shirts, believe me he'd still be relevant.

It's not about the music. It's about the money.

It's about music that sells.....

There has always been a saying."If it smells it sells". Whatever is happening now is NOW. Whatever happened then was "Then". Its all about living in the moment.I'd love to go back to THEN but unfortunatly most who were are gone.. Something new happens everyday..The word History is the total opposite of Future.However you can't have one without the other. Now I wonder How Bill Hankey would have said that?..

Theresa Galbraith wrote:It's about music that sells.....

Amen Sister !


We all go to work and the places we work at are hopefully competitive in "TODAYS" business cycle, not the business cycle of 1965. This is how we stay employed. This is how businesses stay in business. Music is no different, it changes, the styles change,the performers change and most important, THE AUDIENCE changes. 2010 is very relevant to this topic. For me, I didn't like half of the Country Music back in the 60's and 70's and even less in the 80's. So here we are 2010, I still don't like half of the current Country music !

But, someone else does and that's what matters. When nobody shows up for the big show then it will be time to change again , we didn't get here overnight, we got here because things evolved over the past 50 years, whether we like it or not.And, it's going to change again but many of us will not be here to see where it goes...

The good news is we still have venues to go out and see some good Swing and traditional bands , you don't need the CMA to see and hear great Country Music in Nashville, every day, every night on Broadway, great bands and players, The Station Inn, Douglas Corner...etc...Who cares if the performers don't wear big hats ?

I know I'm probably going to be attacked for this, but I don't understand all of this hand-wringing over what's country and what's not.

Country music is an adaptive, changing entity...just like--wait for it--ANY OTHER FORM OF MUSIC.

Now don't get me wrong. I love the old stuff. Faron, Hank, Don. I love everything that country music WAS. But I also love what country music IS: Red Dirt, Nashville, Country Rock, Alt Country and New Country; plus Bluegrass, Gangstagrass and Hick Hop--not all of it, but there are standout songs.

My point is that it's ALL country. Would you hold rock music up to these standards? Would you complain that a secretary for a rock music association had never heard of Bill Haley?

Here's an analogy. Take 2 cities: London, England and Paris, France. London welcomes all sorts of architecture: modern, classical, gothic--you'll find an elizabethen structure next to a modern glass and steel tower. It works. In Paris however, modern architecture is forced outside the center of the city. The center of Paris hasn't adapted and has become a living museum--which is dying.

Personally, I'd rather have a vibrant, growing form of country music than one that I can only experience in a museum.

All my opinion of course.

who's Bill Haley ?

Isn't Bill Haley a comet that only shows up every 75 years or so...you know,kinda like a Faron Young tune on top 40 radio.

Was Faron Young ever that big anyway?

As Alvin says, the CMA is, and always has been, a commercial promotional machine. The issue that traditionalists seem to be really up in arms about is not that there isn't traditional country music still around - as everybody has said, there's plenty of it out there - but that it isn't being pushed in a commercial sense and raking in the big money.

Traditional country music in the classic era didn't generally sell millions and millions of records. Commercial expectations were smaller at all levels - there wasn't nearly the cultural homogeneity that there is now. Increasingly large-scale communication media changed that irrevocably. You may as well give up - the culture is not going back to 1960. That has good and bad points, but regardless, no group can force the culture to go its way. Adapt or be frozen out.

Commercial people will do what they have always done - push whatever they believe will sell the most. I think railing against this is pretty much akin to spitting into the wind. I think the best that can be done is to work locally and regionally - at the grass roots or even "underground" level, if you will. To me, the best music always came from the underground anyway. The exciting days of blues, jazz, and rock were in small clubs - I used to see the greats in small clubs growing up in Boston, and also some great country music at the Hillbilly Ranch. What happened at this underground level merged into a mass commercial movement that moved to large arenas and really big money. With a few exceptions, I never really felt that most of the music scaled up to arenas very well - but that's the way it went because the money did scale up well. Right now, you can go down to Nashville and see great music at the Station Inn, Roberts, or a bunch of other local places. The same is happening many other places also - enjoy, help start a renaissance, and stop complaining that other people like other music - you don't get to control them. Older country performers now share the GOO stage with more modern acts - this is much as it has always been. Don't worry, be happy.

My opinions.

Well let me say this, the rock you hear in country was unacceptable in rock so it has been forced into country and country has been forced to adapt to it!

The marketing is focused on the ages between 7 and 18 and those ages buy CD's! The issue for the CMA to overcome, is the loyalty associated with these buyers. They will hang a while but will drop you for the "Next Big Thing" as Vince Gill would say!

The problem you have with the real country music artist is the older they get the younger they try to sound to be acceppted by these ages! Strait and Jackson for the most part have remained country but they even adjust is some fashion to the these age buyers!
Watson, Singletary and some others are still producing real country but the CMA can't afford to have any of this real country promoted because of the investment in the pop rock artist as in Swift, Lady Ante and the list goes on! They would lose ground and the pop rock has no place to go! It can't go back to rock because it doesn't accept this so called country music! It is sad to hear and watch these artist have the same song on country radio with a fiddle and then on pop rock radio with booming bass and rap type version going on so they can try to sell both markets!

I'm 50 and play steel and guitar and have all my life! I work in country bands and rock bands! I play Jones and i also play Satriani as well! I'm not saying all this so called today's country is bad, i'm saying call it what it is, POP ROCK and put it in its place! Allow real country to maintain its original country status! The CMA award show should not have Kid Rock hosting and Def Leppard as a featured act!

You can only shovel that stuff for so long until you lose the loyal buyer and that's really all that matters to the CMA, MONEY!
They could care less about the true country artist writing and singing about true life!

Singletary says all the change is fine but he stills sings like this, COUNTRY! I grew up on Jones, Haggard, Street, Paycheck, Young, Drake, Green, Emmons, White, Franklin and the list goess on but i also span at least two generations because at 9 years old i was listening to mt daddy's generation of music. Maybe its three generations now because i listen to the newer stuff as well!

that's all i got to say!

When it comes down to it, there are two kinds of music...Good and Other. There are rare moments when "Good" and commercially successful are the same, but such moments are generally fleeting. The only thing that makes any of this 'fair" is that Good endures and finds fans for years and years and years (Bob Wills as a good example) while "Other" fades away (although in the video/internet era , we will now be stuck with "other" crap for a LONG time).

Most musicians get into the business to play "Good." Of course, this often leads to less than optimal income. Let's be clear that the working life of the vast majority of musicians (200+ nights a year playing and traveling) is the same now as it was when Bill Monroe put the band together (or Benny Goodman for that matter). Technology, trends and tastes haven't changed it...and probably won't.

One can "rage against the machine" (great band BTW) or bemoan how "x" or "y" is screwing it up, but its just a variation of how its unfair that really gifted players/singers/composers don't "make it" when so-many no talents do. Frankly, its why so many musicians (and artists generally) fall into substance abuse and other tragedies.

All the externalities like "Fan Fair" and similar events are out of the control of most musicians. When you've chosen music for your life's calling/work, the only thing you can control is what you play and how you play it. To me, the goal to do is play Good music and pay the bills at the same time. Its what will keep you sane; it will allow you to look at yourself in the mirror every morning and respect what you see staring back at you. And be prepared to hit the road for many, many years.

Kenny Martin wrote: Singletary says all the change is fine but he stills sings like this, COUNTRY!

I think Singletary is perhaps the best country singer there is right now, but he is a roots traditionalist. He is keeping alive the style that was predominant in the '50s and '60s. For this reason, I assume he is realistic about how far he can go in today's music business. Oh, but what a voice. The man is gifted.

I think the CMA is a joke
and it has been for a good number of years
its the same crapp every year....
and they give little or no place for classic
country or western swing music
if it were not for REAL country music
there would be NO CMA
so thats how I feel about CMA

Mike

My complaint isn't with todays so called country music. It is with the CMA, Country Music Association. I lived in Nashville during the sixties. That was the big era of Ray Price, Faron Young, George Jones, Webb Pierce and so on. I was backstage at the Ryman auditorium almost every Saturday night. I remember the tremendous respect that was always showed towards artists such as, the Fruit Jar Drinkers, Sam and Kirk McGee, Curly Fox and yes even Roy Acuff who was from a different era. The artists that had help build country music, although not in demand anymore, were still given the utmost respect from the younger artists. During the CMA's early awards broadcasts the legends of the music were most always in attendance and were recognized by film crews and the announcers. Sure enough..even Lonzo and Oscar, Cousin Jody and Del Wood. I doubt if there was one person there in the midsixties that didn't know who Jimmie Rodgers was and he had been gone for over thirty years. I was there...I seen it all. Today there is no respect from these young whippersnappers that are now running the CMA.
I would think that the main requirement to work for the CMA would be to know the history of who you are working for. What a slap in the face to Kitty Wells, the Queen Of Country Music, to not even be recognized by people that are representing the CMA. Lynn Anderson, Charlie Louvin, Jeannie Kendall......nope, they don't know them and even refused to let the booth that represented them at the Fan Fair be allowed to have a booth again this year after ten years of faithfulness to the real country music.
As long as some of you people keep accepting the change, it will do nothing but get worse.
Thanks,
Dave Burley

Yes, it's about music that sells, but the bottom line is.....well, the bottom line. It's all about the money.

I miss the days of the "Nashville Sound" and "Countrypolitan" Then it was all about the music - dedication to the art. oops.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_sound - Upon being asked what the Nashville sound was, Chet Atkins would reach his hand into his pocket, shake the loose change around and say "That's what it is. It's the sound of money".

Not sure where to find them but i bought a new tv that actually has an off switch and channel selector and believe it or not it also works on the programs that have ceaseless commercials.
I am not making this up. Tracy